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100 multi hrs for 5,500 bones

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macfly

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Wow, any of you time builders out there see this months issue of flying??

There was a add for 100hrs in a duchess for 5, 500 dollars. I cant seem to believe this, I paid 158.00 an hr in a seneca to get my multi. shessh.

Anyway, wondering if anyone has done that program at Ft.pierce?

macfly
 

Timebuilder

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Sounds like Ari Ben.

There is a "diversity of opinion" here, but I wouldn't go there.
Try Lenair Aviation in California.
 

Fixin2Lnd

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If you cross the Everglades, you can go to Gulfstream Airlines and pay 18000 for 250 hrs. ME-Turbine time for about 70-75/hr. You also get to wear a uniform and a hat. You may even have a job when you're done.
 

SDdriver

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PFT's RUIN THE INDUSTRY

Yeah,

Do the above and see where that gets you!
 

Fixin2Lnd

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SDdriver posted
"Yeah,

Do the above and see where that gets you!"

====
What do you mean? Get where? To a major? To a better paying job? The fact that several of Gulfstream's pilots are at American, United, Delta, Northwest, Southwest, etc? Why would the majors hire these guys if Gulfstream is such a detestable place?
 

flydog

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That program has been around for years. Its actually 100 hrs with 2 pilots, one acting as safety pilot. You dont get the airplane all to yourself.
 

macfly

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Wow, I just waded through the posts about gulfstream.

Questions: Why are all these guys are bashing PFT? Who payed for thier CFI's and such? I'm I missing something? Looks to me like this gulfstream is a another place to train on high preformance aircraft.

All civil pilots PFT at some point in thier flight training, these gulf guys are just taking it to another level.

See what happens when you fly in 90 heat all day with stanking students in a 150. Bitterness :) just kidding CFI's im not even to that point, but I did get a Multi in FLA, fuggin hot flying! I respect those DAB instructors...ouch!

Besides, at least your flying the 1900 instead of watching students fly all day and log landings. Cant tell you how bad some of the CFIs I've experienced were at handling the airplane. They could recite FARS, but would crack the landing gear in half on most landings.

Anyway, I'm glad I found this place, what a wealth of imformation.
 

Timebuilder

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Mac, I think you're right. You might have missed something.

Go to the Gulfstream post, and read mine.

Summary: everyone is responsible (military excepted) for their training up to the point where it is accepted practice for an employer to provide specialized training for their operation. As an airline hiree, you are a professional, and most professionals' advanced training is provided by their firm. Some "airlines" try to circumvent the professional standard by exploiting pilots. How? If a carrier wishes to have two pilots in their airplane, for whatever reason, that carrier should hire and train two pilots. If they offer a position to a pilot on the condition that he pay for his advanced training, they are taking a paid position from the pool of jobs that should be available to pilots. Lastly, PFT operations lower the professional standard of our industry to that of prostitute and pimp, and most pilots feel this is bad.

One clarification: Simcom and FlightSafety are examples of "...another place to train on high preformance aircraft".
They have no unwitting pasengers who are also paying.

A school has no passengers.
 

SDdriver

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Hey fixin2lnd or whatever,

I have been in this industry since the early 90's and I went through the early 90's without a job, I am very proud that I am flying today and I have never I mean NEVER!!!!!! paid for training.

THat is the crap that ruined this industry from the start. IF company's know that you will pay for the right seat, then why in the hell should they pay you to sit in it?? We have to all get together and show them that we will not stand for that, when our initial training is done and we are qualified to sit in that right seat, or left seat for that matter, we should be paid for it and paid well, I mean didn't it cost enough to get the initial ratings?? Why in the world would you want to pay for 250 hours in the damm right seat logging SIC time when you can be paid??? You will never understand that if you would band together with the rest of us and force them to pay us, this wouldn't even be a problem. oh hell I am tired of waisting my breath....freaking PFT!
 

macfly

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I understand what ya guys are saying about PFT <as an industry standard> being a detriment to the profession.

However, instead of poopin on PFT, I would like to hear recommendations for guys that have 300-400hours and all their multi-commerical ratings?

Where we supposed to work? Airnet? They're not hiring last I heard. You guys tell me, where do ya find work flying light twins? MEI'in could suck for those who dont care to teach.

Is there any other road other than Multi-engine instruction to fly light twins for anyone?

I really like the idea of working for Airnet.

Should a guy training to be a heart surgeon be pricking fingers, or would he better off working and learning around the operating table. I would think that's rather synonamous to flying 1900s for some PFT group and a guy sweating his balls off flying a 150 around the patch, training plp how to fly that pos. I'd say that flying 1900s is much better experience.

If your goal is to get to the regionals, then the ends justify the means.

If stood 2 guys side by side both 1000/100 and one had 100 in turboprops in an airline enviroment and the other had 100 in a POS dutchess, then tell me who's more qualified to fly heavy iron?
 

Fixin2Lnd

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SDdriver wrote-

"Hey fixin2lnd or whatever,

I have been in this industry since the early 90's and I went through the early 90's without a job, I am very proud that I am flying today and I have never I mean NEVER!!!!!! paid for training."

--Maybe this is why you are old and still stuck flying King Airs? Wear that one to your interview at United, nobody cares.
 

Buschpilot

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Macfly:

"However, instead of poopin on PFT, I would like to hear recommendations for guys that have 300-400hours and all their multi-commerical ratings?

Where we supposed to work? Airnet? They're not hiring last I heard. You guys tell me, where do ya find work flying light twins? MEI'in could suck for those who dont care to teach.

Is there any other road other than Multi-engine instruction to fly light twins for anyone?"

I don't have an MEI rating, and I probably will never get one (unless some kind soul wants to buy me one). I started off instructing like most, and then I got a 135 job. Here's the key to not instructing forever: Get a 135 job flying some little single, and then move into the company's twin. I had VERY little multi time when I started 135, but its easier and better for companies to hire/promote from within. , so I moved into a Navajo. Now I fly a sweet turboprop (missed the regional hiring thing due to current events, but that's ok), and I love coming to work every day.

I also had a total BALL getting to where I am. I wouldn't have done it any other way.


The key to a happy successful career is Flexability and Patience.

Patience, Patience, Patience (buying beers for the boss helps, too).

A PFT'r may get the job, but they are going to have a lonely life in this industry. Do it the honest way my friend.

Best of luck all!

B
 

kilomike

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Down with PFT!!

Down with PFT!! Paying passengers who KNOW about it don't like it one BIT!! Pilots, That's MY "Job" as a passenger to PAY for that ticket, not yours! Please do me and other paying passengers a favor and refuse to do this gulfscab thing.

If you want to buy flight time, go rent a twin and enjoy yourself in the process. It's better for you, you get experience in the system and it's better for me, since as a passenger I want to see PFT GONE!! It's nothing but greed and money-grubbing on the part of gulfscab and the others. It's better for you to gain experience in a rented twin without inflicting your experience-building on paying passengers.

Once you gain experience by flight instructing and renting twins, and you earn your job, you will have earned the right to hear your passengers say "Thank you for the great flight"! Don't you want to know in your heart of hearts you are earning a living flying when a passenger thanks you for a good flight, that you did not have to buy that opportunity to hear a passenger thanking you for a good flight??!!
 

Fixin2Lnd

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Kilomike wrote:

"Once you gain experience by flight instructing and renting twins, and you earn your job, you will have earned the right to hear your passengers say "Thank you for the great flight"! Don't you want to know in your heart of hearts you are earning a living flying when a passenger thanks you for a good flight, that you did not have to buy that opportunity to hear a passenger thanking you for a good flight??!!"
-----
Earned your job? Sounds like you are spending more money renting a twin, doing touch and go's on 9R. What right? If I were you, I wouldn't buy a ticket on a major airline if you are worried if any of the 100,000+ major airline pilots PFT'd. You may have to rent your own twin or cessna to fly to Osaka next time.

Kilomike wrote:

"That's MY "Job" as a passenger to PAY for that ticket, not yours! Please do me and other paying passengers a favor and refuse to do this gulfscab thing. "
----
Gulfscab? Did all of these Gulfstream pilots, who fly for American, United, Delta, Northwest, AMWest, Southwest, Continental, FEDEX, UPS, etc., scab? Did they cross a picket line? When? Tell me what a scab is, OK?
 

Fixin2Lnd

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Buschpilot wrote:

"A PFT'r may get the job, but they are going to have a lonely life in this industry. Do it the honest way my friend"

Lonely life? There are plenty of cute flight attendants at the majors. How many are in your 152? Honesty? What does that have to do with PFT?
 

kilomike

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Hey fixin to land,

all i have to say to you is:

"What a dope you are"!

grow up, kid. that's why i'd rather fly myself than pay someone like you to get me somewhere!! Some of us have that choice, you know.

Child, I think you need some help. your attitude stinks and I can tell from your writing that you think your poop doesn't stink
 

Fixin2Lnd

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Kilomike,

Good response. Are we name calling now?

If you are going to pee with the tall dogs, you've got to have long legs...
 

Timebuilder

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Fix'n-

I think you can get a general feel for the mood among most pilots here- from low timers to multiple thousands- regarding PFT. I think that is what was meant about a lonely life; the ostracizing by one's peers of the PFT pilot. I don't care about the cute stew. If you do, you're probably here for the wrong reason, personally speaking.

Somehow, you equate the fact that some majors have hired some PFT pilots as an example of the "advantage" of going the PFT route. Those numbers are small compared to the more "traditional" means of preparation. That's why it's called "traditional".

At 4200 hours, and I have no reason to believe you don't have those hours, I have to wonder why you have a dog in this fight. Is this a defence of how you got your job? How your son will get one? I'm puzzled. Just an idle question, as it's really none of my business.

Often we think that "the ends justify the means". This is often not the case.
 

SDdriver

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HEY fIXIN2LND

I don't fly king airs dude! I did fly them 135 charter to help get me to the position I am at today. I got paid by the way to fly them. 3 different types also. All PIC turbine, is that worthless to you. It doesn't matter. Ok, guess it did matter.

as far as the other guy asking what to do to get his time, I had all of my ratings and flew traffic watch in a 172 for about 1000 hours and then a charter comapny hired me to fly with them, and I left there and went to where I am now. I never paid one place for initial training, I was paid through training at every place I went. I turned down multiple jobs because I wouldn't pay for training or housing or whatever. You don't have to do it that way, it just hurts everyone. Just be paitent, do whatever flying you can that puts hours in your logbook and money in your pocket and you will get there. Compare the number of guys that got there without PFT and the number that PFT, I think it speaks for itself.
 
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