10 JAN 2007 NTSB determines cause of fatal CRJ crash in Jefferson City

[falcon20driver]

http://aviation-safety.net/news/newsitem.php?id=1757

 

[othello]

10 JAN 2007 NTSB determines cause of fatal CRJ crash in Jefferson City
The NTSB has reached its probable cause statement and safety recommendations regarding the October 14, 2004 accident at Jefferson City involving a CRJ accident: The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable causes of this accident were (1) the pilots' unprofessional behavior, deviation from standard operating procedures, and poor airmanship, which resulted in an in-flight emergency from which they were unable to recover, in part because of the pilots' inadequate training; (2) the pilots' failure to prepare for an emergency landing in a timely manner, including communicating with air traffic controllers immediately after the emergency about the loss of both engines and the availability of landing sites; and (3) the pilots' failure to achieve and maintain the target airspeed in the double engine failure checklist, which caused the engine cores to stop rotating and resulted in the core lock engine condition. Contributing to this accident was 1) the engine core lock condition, which prevented at least one engine from being restarted, and 2) the airplane flight manuals that did not communicate to pilots the importance of maintaining a minimum airspeed to keep the engine cores rotating. (NTSB)

Not Good For 9E, throws there pilots and trainning department under the bus.

 

[rickair7777]

Wow. Did "Unprofessional Behavior" previously exist as a probable cause, or did the NTSB create it just for this accident?

 

[xjhawk]

1) the pilots' unprofessional behavior



ouch

 

[PCL_128]

F'n idiots....

Darwinism at its best here. At least the world is a little safer now.

B

.......

Nevermind. You're not worth it.

 

[mamba20]

Wow. Did "Unprofessional Behavior" previously exist as a probable cause, or did the NTSB create it just for this accident?

Either way, its a sad truth to the event.

 

[siucavflight]

F'n idiots....

Darwinism at its best here. At least the world is a little safer now.

B

You sir are a tool.

 

[joe_pilot]

.......

Nevermind. You're not worth it.

Ditto.

Some people are morons, ya know?

 

[FmrFreightDog]

I think these guys have been crucified enough. Oh, yeah... and they're both dead. One more time... They are both dead. That ought to be enough to settle your "cosmic scoreboard". Congratulations. You are not, at present, no longer among the living, Count yourself as a better pilot if you must.

Yeah. They messed up. They messed up huge. They paid for the mistakes in full, but if it makes you feel like more of a man, go ahead and piss on the graves.

Can we please put this accident to bed. They've more than paid for their mistakes, no matter how egregious they were.

 

[DrewBlows]

The fact that the NTSB cited "the pilots' unprofessional behavior, deviation from standard operating procedures, and poor airmanship..." is curious. It's a major departure from the usual restating of the facts (think "pilot failed to maintain directional control" when an airplane departs a runway). Is this a new direction of the NTSB? Do they think that this kind of probable cause is more useful than simply restating what happened? I don't know, but I'd be interested in an interview with the authors of the report.

 

[regionaltard]

The fact that the NTSB cited "the pilots' unprofessional behavior, deviation from standard operating procedures, and poor airmanship..." is curious. It's a major departure from the usual restating of the facts (think "pilot failed to maintain directional control" when an airplane departs a runway). Is this a new direction of the NTSB? Do they think that this kind of probable cause is more useful than simply restating what happened? I don't know, but I'd be interested in an interview with the authors of the report.

If you're suggesting that the NTSB report went beyond being simply descriptive I'd have to disagree with you. The word "egregious" would not have been out of place.

 

[Fly4hire]

Can we please put this accident to bed. They've more than paid for their mistakes, no matter how egregious they were.

I agree as far as the crew goes, however PCL, and the industry as a whole absolutely not. This was a bell weather event in the regional industry, and despite some very good people it also highlights some HUGE shortcomings in training, standardization, experience, duty day, and on and on...

To blame it on the dead guys and move on is exactly what we do not want to do, because there are any number of crews out there now who are capable of repeating in one form or another some of the mistakes made.

To wit look at the preliminary results of the investigation into the Corporate Airlines crash in 2004. Informal Banter, professional demeanor, and failure to comply with standard operating procedure were front and center in this accident as well.


http://www.ntsb.gov/events/2006/Kirksville/human_performance.pdf

 

[Fly4hire]

The entire NTSB hearing is availible at:

http://www.capitolconnection.gmu.edu/ntsb/010907/ntsb010907.htm

 

[EMcx2]

This accident should never be "put to bed". Every pilot should always remember this accident and it's causes. Maybe that will keep someone else from screwing around with an airplane and killing people.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

The fact that the NTSB cited "the pilots' unprofessional behavior, deviation from standard operating procedures, and poor airmanship..." is curious. Is this a new direction of the NTSB? Do they think that this kind of probable cause is more useful than simply restating what happened?

The accident reeked so bad of bad judgment and total lack of maturity, I don't think they had a choice but to name it as a primary cause. If you look at other accident CVR's, you will find bad judgment and unrefined conversation, but they pale in comparison to this and the Corpex crash.

Welcome the next generation of airline. Thanks guys.

 

[CA1900]

My only disappointment with the NTSB was this:

"They didn't cause the accident, but I'm going to suggest that they may have enabled the accident," [NTSB Board Member Robert] Sumwalt said of the airline.

Ummmm... bullsh**. They absolutely caused this accident. They took a fully-functional airplane and destroyed it.


Edit: Helps to read the whole article instead of skimming it. Whoops.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

My only disappointment with the NTSB was this:




Ummmm... bullsh**. They absolutely caused this accident. They took a fully-functional airplane and destroyed it.

Vicariously, indeed.

 

[CA1900]

Duh.... reading comprehension problem. Sorry. :0

 

[SBD-2U3]

"...throws there pilots and trainning department under the bus."

I don't think anyone was thrown. I think they walked in front of that bus on thier own.

 

[Poahi]

This accident should never be "put to bed". Every pilot should always remember this accident and it's causes. Maybe that will keep someone else from screwing around with an airplane and killing people.

One of the best posts on this board I've ever seen.

 

[jackson]

still hate hearing about this crash

real shame

 

[pilotdiscretion]

This accident should never be "put to bed". Every pilot should always remember this accident and it's causes. Maybe that will keep someone else from screwing around with an airplane and killing people.

I have to disagree. Fear has never been an effective training tool in aviation. Remember the pilots but forget about the accident. There has been a major generation disconnect with the older experienced airman and the new generation coming up. We've lost some of the basics of airmanship ... discipline, compliance and self education. That's what needs to be placed in the syllabus of every training program.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

I agree with you. I don't even know why this is even an issue. Guys have always had fun in this line of work, but business is business. The problem is that the new generation doesn't know the business.

 

[Captain Overs]

I feel no sympathy for the pilots.....only their families. Their stupidity affects many people that had no cause in the outcome. (family, kids, ect)

This should be a lesson to all of us that we need to be professionals at all times when on the flight deck. We get bent because management doesn't want to treat us like professionals.....this is a case where we failed.

 

[:-)]

I agree completely with the NTSB. We must, as an industry, accept blame where blame is due. That is the only way that we can credibly reject blame that is not due.

The PCL accident was clearly caused by the pilots lack of professionalism. A large portion of the blame should rest on the shoulders of airline managements who hire unqualified pilots and proceed to place them in airplanes before the pilot is trained to a safe level; but if the airline training department is at fault, then this type of accident wouldn't be limited to a repositioning flight. Obviously, those pilots knew better than to fly that way with pax on board, therefore THEY KNEW BETTER. Period. Their unprofessionalism killed them. Hopefully, others will learn from their mistake.

BTW, I donated a days pay to the Captains wife. My judgment of their flying/judgement skills is in no way a judgement on their qualities as human beings. I'm sure that they were great human beings, with many great qualities and I'm also sure that the Captains kids miss him very much. This is just an extremely sad situation for those left alive.

 

[ReverseSensing]

I agree completely with the NTSB. We must, as an industry, accept blame where blame is due. That is the only way that we can credibly reject blame that is not due.

The PCL accident was clearly caused by the pilots lack of professionalism. A large portion of the blame should rest on the shoulders of airline managements who hire unqualified pilots and proceed to place them in airplanes before the pilot is trained to a safe level; but if the airline training department is at fault, then this type of accident wouldn't be limited to a repositioning flight. Obviously, those pilots knew better than to fly that way with pax on board, therefore THEY KNEW BETTER. Period. Their unprofessionalism killed them. Hopefully, others will learn from their mistake.

BTW, I donated a days pay to the Captains wife. My judgment of their flying/judgement skills is in no way a judgement on their qualities as human beings. I'm sure that they were great human beings, with many great qualities and I'm also sure that the Captains kids miss him very much. This is just an extremely sad situation for those left alive.

Classy post. Nice work.

 

[Fly4hire]

The PCL accident was clearly caused by the pilots lack of professionalism. A large portion of the blame should rest on the shoulders of airline managements who hire unqualified pilots and proceed to place them in airplanes before the pilot is trained to a safe level

Or on an industry, that as a result of socio-political-economic forces fostered by an administration hostile to labor, has been able to reduce wages and benefits to the point where this sort of inexperience and immaturity is all they can attract to fly thier new lower cost airlines.

These guys had the old PCL mins - now they want to reduce the Captain minimums to 1800 hrs vs. 3000.

I'm sure in some dark room somewhere, NWA and PCL have caclulated the cost of not having enough Captains to fly thier planes vs. the business impact of dead bodies and bad press and made thier pact with the devil. Of course the cost of paying a better wage and increasing hiring minimums to attract a better qualified candidate is not in that calculation....

 

[flyboyike]

We get bent because management doesn't want to treat us like professionals.....this is a case where we failed.

I think where we really failed is many of us don't act like professionals.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

There has been a major generation disconnect with the older experienced airman and the new generation coming up. We've lost some of the basics of airmanship ... discipline, compliance and self education. That's what needs to be placed in the syllabus of every training program.

AMEN!

 

[30West]

I agree with you. I don't even know why this is even an issue. Guys have always had fun in this line of work, but business is business. The problem is that the new generation doesn't know the business.

Ding! We have a winner.