10/250

[gutshotdraw]

As the Section 6 negotiations at NetJets are just getting going, one contract proposal that seems to be gathering a lot of support is the notion of a 10 year, 7-7 schedule PIC having a base wage of $250,000 and extrapolating the rest of the pay scale from that point.

Now, before anybody jumps to any conclusions, lets agree on a few things.

Few would argue that, in many ways, a fractional pilot has WAY more duties to perform every day than a typical airline pilot. For example, on a typical day, duties include: Crew ground transportation coordinator, fuel and aircraft service supervisor, aircaft maintenance status inspector, passenger and crew catering expeditor, passenger baggage handler, aircraft security officer, cabin safety briefer, cabin customer service representative, company screw-up apologizer, aviation weather evaluator, cockpit decision maker and flight control operator, passenger ground transportation procurer, cabin cleaner and re-stocker, FBO lounge appreciator, professional airline passenger, and, if there's time, wiped-out beer drinker.

I also think most would agree that the fractional segment is its own, unique brand of flying and a direct salary comparison against major airline, regional airline, or traditional corporate is problematic.

Obviously, there are many other important contract sections that will affect total compensation and quality of life. But for the sake of this discussion, let's stick with the basic premise of 10/250.

So, here's my question for the peanut gallery:

Is the 10/250 proposal

A) An admirable starting point for negotiations that will ultimately be negotiated downward by a substantial amount? Or;

B) A realistic bottom-line benchmark that can be achieved with the appropriate "education" of the EMT by the pilot group? Or;

C) Sheer fantasy.

Discuss. And thanks for keeping the name-calling to a minimum.

 

[rettofly]

As the Section 6 negotiations at NetJets are just getting going, one contract proposal that seems to be gathering a lot of support is the notion of a 10 year, 7-7 schedule PIC having a base wage of $250,000 and extrapolating the rest of the pay scale from that point.

Now, before anybody jumps to any conclusions, lets agree on a few things.

Few would argue that, in many ways, a fractional pilot has WAY more duties to perform every day than a typical airline pilot. For example, on a typical day, duties include: Crew ground transportation coordinator, fuel and aircraft service supervisor, aircaft maintenance status inspector, passenger and crew catering expeditor, passenger baggage handler, aircraft security officer, cabin safety briefer, cabin customer service representative, company screw-up apologizer, aviation weather evaluator, cockpit decision maker and flight control operator, passenger ground transportation procurer, cabin cleaner and re-stocker, FBO lounge appreciator, professional airline passenger, and, if there's time, wiped-out beer drinker.

I also think most would agree that the fractional segment is its own, unique brand of flying and a direct salary comparison against major airline, regional airline, or traditional corporate is problematic.

Obviously, there are many other important contract sections that will affect total compensation and quality of life. But for the sake of this discussion, let's stick with the basic premise of 10/250.

So, here's my question for the peanut gallery:

Is the 10/250 proposal

A) An admirable starting point for negotiations that will ultimately be negotiated downward by a substantial amount? Or;

B) A realistic bottom-line benchmark that can be achieved with the appropriate "education" of the EMT by the pilot group? Or;

C) Sheer fantasy.

Discuss. And thanks for keeping the name-calling to a minimum.

Name calling, schmame calling.

The only 10/250 I know is the required call-out on the descent.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Name calling, schmame calling.

The only 10/250 I know is the required call-out on the descent.

Hahaha! Nice. Except you know we never did that callout in our fleet and they are eliminating the call for the fleets that did in the new AOM's, right?

Wow. Contributed to my own thread derailment within three posts...

 

[Blueridgeflyer]

As the Section 6 negotiations at NetJets are just getting going, one contract proposal that seems to be gathering a lot of support is the notion of a 10 year, 7-7 schedule PIC having a base wage of $250,000 and extrapolating the rest of the pay scale from that point.

Now, before anybody jumps to any conclusions, lets agree on a few things.

Few would argue that, in many ways, a fractional pilot has WAY more duties to perform every day than a typical airline pilot. For example, on a typical day, duties include: Crew ground transportation coordinator, fuel and aircraft service supervisor, aircaft maintenance status inspector, passenger and crew catering expeditor, passenger baggage handler, aircraft security officer, cabin safety briefer, cabin customer service representative, company screw-up apologizer, aviation weather evaluator, cockpit decision maker and flight control operator, passenger ground transportation procurer, cabin cleaner and re-stocker, FBO lounge appreciator, professional airline passenger, and, if there's time, wiped-out beer drinker.

I also think most would agree that the fractional segment is its own, unique brand of flying and a direct salary comparison against major airline, regional airline, or traditional corporate is problematic.

Obviously, there are many other important contract sections that will affect total compensation and quality of life. But for the sake of this discussion, let's stick with the basic premise of 10/250.

So, here's my question for the peanut gallery:

Is the 10/250 proposal

A) An admirable starting point for negotiations that will ultimately be negotiated downward by a substantial amount? Or;

B) A realistic bottom-line benchmark that can be achieved with the appropriate "education" of the EMT by the pilot group? Or;

C) Sheer fantasy.

Discuss. And thanks for keeping the name-calling to a minimum.

The 250,000k is just for jumping on board and turning left AFAIK. Every one of the job intangibles which you listed will need to be compensated above and beyond the base pay. Furthermore there needs to be a real retirement plan that ensures that Netjets pilots can comfortably walk away from the industry that we gave our lives towards. Lastly, there will need to be more variety of schedules and more flexibility moving among them. BTW, I'm tired of doing more with less. They had better start recalls and augmenting the fleet before safety becomes compromised...if it hasn't already. This can be a great place to work while providing the owners with exceptional service. BRK would still maintain a fair return as part of their aviation portfolio. Win, win, win.

 

[gutshotdraw]

The 250,000k is just for jumping on board and turning left AFAIK. Every one of the job intangibles which you listed will need to be compensated above and beyond the base pay. Furthermore there needs to be a real retirement plan that ensures that Netjets pilots can comfortably walk away from the industry that we gave our lives towards. Lastly, there will need to be more variety of schedules and more flexibility moving among them. BTW, I'm tired of doing more with less. They had better start recalls and augmenting the fleet before safety becomes compromised...if it hasn't already. This can be a great place to work while providing the owners with exceptional service. BRK would still maintain a fair return as part of their aviation portfolio. Win, win, win.

I agree with you on much of the above. Happy employees make happy customers make happy profit-taking stockholders.

 

[rettofly]

Hahaha! Nice. Except you know we never did that callout in our fleet and they are eliminating the call for the fleets that did in the new AOM's, right?

Wow. Contributed to my own thread derailment within three posts...

Guess I've been retired too long. All I fly now is red, white and blue C182s down in the weeds. Callout not required.

 

[el raton]

Hell of a idea!!!
You left out the airports fractional fly to that the airlines don't. Some of them are really no fun at all.

 

[billybob]

I fall into the a/b group. You have to start someplace and that is as good as any. We are worth more than the guy that turn left and that's it but I think I need more on the beer drinking part of the job

As a 495 fo I need a good reason to come back. I'm at the top of the scale why come back?

Something other than a 401k

A bump in $$$ would be nice but an A/B fund would be great. If we got a A/B/C fund of some sort it does not cost them big $$$ now but gives us something to build on down the road. The sum would be close to the 10/200 or 10/250.

Other than that I don't see a great reason not to go to a major and be a 5 year fo making the Same as lots of ca at Nja

 

[BentOver]

Company wants what amounts to a 1% reduction in costs from the pilots. 10/250 gives the pilots a nearly 66% increase...

Although admirable, a phenom 7/7 guy is gonna have a tough time winning over the company on $250K a year to work half a month..

Unfortunately this career is still somewhat based on the size of a/c determining pay. And when the average phenom/400 pilot makes around $60-75k, I don't see the company ever signing off on the proposed numbers or anything even close.

 

[G4dude]

Company wants what amounts to a 1% reduction in costs from the pilots. 10/250 gives the pilots a nearly 66% increase...

Although admirable, a phenom 7/7 guy is gonna have a tough time winning over the company on $250K a year to work half a month..

Unfortunately this career is still somewhat based on the size of a/c determining pay. And when the average phenom/400 pilot makes around $60-75k, I don't see the company ever signing off on the proposed numbers or anything even close.

I agree, and I don't see how NJA could compete with other companies with 10/250, as much as I would like the money.