$1,000,000,000,000,000,000.00 question for CJC IBT supporters

[suupah]

If pncl decides to integrate the pilot groups to streamline ops (they are already doing this. in a few months everything will turn up nonconnah ave) and make nw routes available for bid on the Q, Would teamsters stick around and spend 100's of thousands of dollars to make sure we get a fair integration when they know that after it is all said and done the list will be ALPA?

 

[suupah]

bueller?

 

[DoinTime]

Do I win the $1 quintillion dollars if I get it right?

 

[PCL_128]

bueller?

I think you'll be waiting a while for your answer.

 

[suupah]

Do I win the $1 quintillion dollars if I get it right?

I was wondering what that amount of money was called.

 

[submachXJ]

It needs more zero's not nearly long enough:beer:

 

[turbinesurgeon]

IBT spend money? I don't think so. Money goes in but it doesn't come out.

 

[Flyer1015]

We better have fences if the list is merged.

 

[suupah]

We better have fences if the list is merged.

Barbed wire with land mine fields on both sides!

i thought you wanted to staple cjc with 34 seat scope!

 

[Flyer1015]

Barbed wire with land mine fields on both sides!

i thought you wanted to staple cjc with 34 seat scope!

If they turn ALPA down for a SECOND time, then yes they deserved to be stapled.

 

[filejw]

Well you may want to do a staple job but there is a law now that prevents it...

 

[Flyer1015]

Which law?

 

[Nevets]

Which law?

Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2008
SEC. 117. LABOR INTEGRATION. (a) LABOR INTEGRATION- With respect to any covered transaction involving two or more covered air carriers that results in the combination of crafts or classes that are subject to the Railway Labor Act (45 U.S.C. 151 et seq.), sections 3 and 13 of the labor protective provisions imposed by the Civil Aeronautics Board in the Allegheny-Mohawk merger (as published at 59 C.A.B. 45) shall apply to the integration of covered employees of the covered air carriers; except that--

• (1) if the same collective bargaining agent represents the combining crafts or classes at each of the covered air carriers, that collective bargaining agent's internal policies regarding integration, if any, will not be affected by and will supersede the requirements of this section; and
  (2) the requirements of any collective bargaining agreement that may be applicable to the terms of integration involving covered employees of a covered air carrier shall not be affected by the requirements of this section as to the employees covered by that agreement, so long as those provisions allow for the protections afforded by sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny-Mohawk provisions.

(b) DEFINITIONS- In this section, the following definitions apply:

• (1) AIR CARRIER- The term `air carrier' means an air carrier that holds a certificate issued under chapter 411 of title 49, United States Code.
  (2) COVERED AIR CARRIER- The term `covered air carrier' means an air carrier that is involved in a covered transaction.
  (3) COVERED EMPLOYEE- The term `covered employee' means an employee who--
  • (A) is not a temporary employee; and
    (B) is a member of a craft or class that is subject to the Railway Labor Act (45 U.S.C. 151 et seq.).
  (4) COVERED TRANSACTION- The term `covered transaction' means--
  • (A) a transaction for the combination of multiple air carriers into a single air carrier; and which
    (B) involves the transfer of ownership or control of--
    • (i) 50 percent or more of the equity securities (as defined in section 101 of title 11, United States Code) of an air carrier; or
      (ii) 50 percent or more (by value) of the assets of the air carrier.

(c) APPLICATION- This section shall not apply to any covered transaction involving a covered air carrier that took place before the date of enactment of this Act.
(d) EFFECTIVENESS OF PROVISION- This section shall become effective on the date of enactment of this Act and shall continue in effect in fiscal years after fiscal year 2008.
http://www.thomas.gov/cgi-bin/query/...10JBN0k9:e685:

 

[Turtlesfly]

cool! You can reject a union but still get union benefits in integration! Sweet! Why waste all that precious FO money?

 

[sinkrate]

Well you may want to do a staple job but there is a law now that prevents it...

Who is going to pay all the legal fees, fees for the arbitrator, and facility fees for the Colgan pilots? No money, no representation. You think the Teamsters will do the job when they know they aren't going to see another nickel of revenue from the Colgan pilots? Are the Colgan pilots capable of paying all this out of their own pockets if they don't organize? The PCL pilot group is capable of out spending the Colgan pilots by at least ten to one. With the resources they have available they will build a very convincing case to do whatever they want to do.

 

[Nevets]

cool! You can reject a union but still get union benefits in integration! Sweet! Why waste all that precious FO money?

Because without a union the management represents the pilots in negotiating a seniority list integration. They are less likely to go to arbitration to fight for their pilots.

Also, if the two parties agree, a staple job can be defined as fair and equitable. I don't think ALPA would agree to that but management might.

 

[suupah]

Who is going to pay all the legal fees, fees for the arbitrator, and facility fees for the Colgan pilots? No money, no representation. You think the Teamsters will do the job when they know they aren't going to see another nickel of revenue from the Colgan pilots? Are the Colgan pilots capable of paying all this out of their own pockets if they don't organize? The PCL pilot group is capable of out spending the Colgan pilots by at least ten to one. With the resources they have available they will build a very convincing case to do whatever they want to do.

And if the CJC is ALPA will they have the funds to do it then?

 

[Nevets]

And if the CJC is ALPA will they have the funds to do it then?

Yes, ALPA has the funds.

 

[PCL_128]

And if the CJC is ALPA will they have the funds to do it then?

If CJC is ALPA, then there's a 99.9% chance that the two pilot groups will work out a settlement without any of this legal wrangling anyway. The PCL MEC wants a settlement that is fair to both sides. They've been consistent in that from the very beginning. But if the CJC pilots turn their backs on the PCL pilots and go with IBT, that will likely change the dynamics.

 

[Fozzy]

The IBT has absolutely nothing to offer a pilot group.

If you have a choice between ALPA and IBT, the answer is easy.

 

[Mr Wu]

Something that you are all forgetting about is that it will only take a 30% interest in IBT to force a vote after integration. Is 100% of the 9E pilot group committed to ALPA? This vote can also be petitioned by PNCL management if they believe that 30% of the covered group want a change. 9E ALPA should probably concentrate more on getting their own house in order for when the integration happens than sabotaging the 9L vote AGAIN.

 

[Godfather]

Something that you are all forgetting about is that it will only take a 30% interest in IBT to force a vote after integration. Is 100% of the 9E pilot group committed to ALPA? This vote can also be petitioned by PNCL management if they believe that 30% of the covered group want a change. 9E ALPA should probably concentrate more on getting their own house in order for when the integration happens than sabotaging the 9L vote AGAIN.

Amen!!!!

 

[LanceAir]

Actually it's 33% to get a vote, here are the rough numbers:

PCL(1300)+CJC(500)= 1800,
1800*.33= 600,

assuming CJC is IBT...uke:


CJC(500) < 600 = ........wait for it......NO VOTE!

 

[suupah]

Actually it's 33% to get a vote, here are the rough numbers:

PCL(1300)+CJC(500)= 1800,
1800*.33= 600,

assuming CJC is IBT...uke:


CJC(500) < 600 = ........wait for it......NO VOTE!

you have the 1000000000000000 dollar avatar

btw, yes ibt is not who cjc wants in the event of the eventual integration.
i have seen the basic problem is simple. lack of education. we need to get the facts out.

 

[PCL_128]

Something that you are all forgetting about is that it will only take a 30% interest in IBT to force a vote after integration. Is 100% of the 9E pilot group committed to ALPA? This vote can also be petitioned by PNCL management if they believe that 30% of the covered group want a change. 9E ALPA should probably concentrate more on getting their own house in order for when the integration happens than sabotaging the 9L vote AGAIN.

Based on the last polling data I got before leaving the PCL MEC, we had a favorability rating in the high 90%s from the membership. The PCL pilots are quite happy with their ALPA representation, and you'd have a hard time finding even a couple dozen that would vote for the jokers at the IBT.

 

[e=mc2]

If you think 90% are happy with ALPA - Your Mother needs to up the dose of your anti-pyschedelic drugs!

Bottom line is that ALPA is only thinking of ALPA, not the employee. Airline Management has a free hand to fun the operation the way they wish, and the only people that think ALPA is a factor are those such as yourself.

 

[PCL_128]

If you think 90% are happy with ALPA - Your Mother needs to up the dose of your anti-pyschedelic drugs!

I think I know the PCL pilot group a little bit better than you do.

 

[DoinTime]

9E ALPA should probably concentrate more on getting their own house in order for when the integration happens than sabotaging the 9L vote AGAIN.

Pinnacle ALPA sabotaged the vote last time??? What planet were you on last year?

 

[DoinTime]

Something that you are all forgetting about is that it will only take a 30% interest in IBT to force a vote after integration. Is 100% of the 9E pilot group committed to ALPA? This vote can also be petitioned by PNCL management if they believe that 30% of the covered group want a change.

I would be willing to bet that there are fewer Teamster supporters among PCL pilots than there are ALPA supporters among CJC pilots. In a merged carrier, Teamsters lose.

 

[PCL_128]

Pinnacle ALPA sabotaged the vote last time??? What planet were you on last year?

Yeah, could've fooled me. I thought I was helping the CJC pilots when I was away from home for 60 straight days working on the organizing drive while still flying a full schedule. Silly me.