$1,000,000,000,000,000,000.00 question for CJC IBT supporters

[Options_SLAVE]

It sure is interesting how ALPA is never at fault. It's comical to read.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

I'd be happy to. Their pay rates are pretty good, but their work rules don't come close to comparing to the ALPA regionals like ExpressJet and ASA that have negotiated their agreements in the last few years. This is what the IBT is incapable of understanding, because they don't understand air line pilots and our issues. To a truck driver, things like duty rigs, trip rigs, training conflicts, cancellation pay, vacation trip-touch, etc... aren't issues that they have to deal with. They don't understand how these things can affect W2 compensation and overall QOL. ALPA has been dealing with these issues for over three-quarters of a century. They know air line pilot contracts. The IBT does not.



You mean the same NetJets pilots that just dumped the IBT and created their own union? They didn't feel that they were getting their money's worth out of the IBT. That's really saying something with the contract they got. They are obviously less than impressed with the IBT.

Heh. Well you force me to defend the teamsters, when I was not rooting for either. Whatever. You are referring to ASA and ExpressJet topping Horizon's contract. Well duh, what do you think will happen when Horizon negotiates their next contract?

There is not a single Net Jets pilot who is complaining about their net jets contract. Have you read their contract? How could they complain about it?! They left the teamsters for personal reasons - they were large enough to support themselves and not pay the IBT National and take the burden on themselves. I don't think that's an option for little Colgan's pilot group.

Don't trip on that ball and chain that has ALPA stamped on it. ;-) Colgan pilots should research heavily before they choose. Also, again, I re-iterate, I'm not against ALPA. I just know they are not the only choice, and they have a propensity to screw smaller companies during mergers, even if Doin-Time doesn't want to blame ALPA for ALPA-ALPA seniority list mergers. ;-)

 

[PCL_128]

Heh. Well you force me to defend the teamsters, when I was not rooting for either. Whatever. You are referring to ASA and ExpressJet topping Horizon's contract. Well duh, what do you think will happen when Horizon negotiates their next contract?

Um, no. XJT and ASA didn't top the Horizon contract, because the Horizon contract was never in the lead in the first place. Before XJT, the top regional contract was CMR, which was signed before the Horizon agreement. You've been fooled by Horizon's payrates without digging deeper and looking at the work rules and soft pay. Again, this is the stuff that ALPA understands and the IBT does not.

They left the teamsters for personal reasons

Personal reasons? I don't even know what that means. They left because they were sending money to the IBT International and getting nothing for it in return. The NetJets pilots got themselves that contract, through no help whatsoever from the IBT. They realized that and said "buh-bye" to the IBT. The CJC pilots would be wise not to ever send a dime to the IBT, because there will be no return on investment.

Don't trip on that ball and chain that has ALPA stamped on it. ;-) Colgan pilots should research heavily before they choose. Also, again, I re-iterate, I'm not against ALPA. I just know they are not the only choice, and they have a propensity to screw smaller companies during mergers, even if Doin-Time doesn't want to blame ALPA for ALPA-ALPA seniority list mergers. ;-)

I think DoinTime has demonstrated that you don't really understand ALPA merger policy or the ALG-Mohawk LPPs. The maximum protection in the event of a merger for the CJC pilots would be ALPA, hands down.

 

[suupah]

Like I said before, wise up, get ALPA on property. If Colgan turns down ALPA for a second time, then ya'll are screwed. Get ready for a bad integration.

This statement here is why many at Colgan want NOTHING to do with PNCL's ALPA or pilot group. You should consider keeping some comments to yourself and do a better job faking the "brothers in aviation" sentiment.

 

[Mr Wu]

This statement here is why many at Colgan want NOTHING to do with PNCL's ALPA or pilot group. You should consider keeping some comments to yourself and do a better job faking the "brothers in aviation" sentiment.

This is the sort of thing that I was referring to when I wrote about 9E sabotaging the 9L vote. As an organizing committee member I was constantly defending the shyte that was being posted by PCL128, Flyer1015, Dointime, etc. about what would happen if CJC didn't vite in ALPA. You three are personally responsible for planting doubt in those 4 guys. The best thing you could do this year is shut your holes.

 

[Flyer1015]

This statement here is why many at Colgan want NOTHING to do with PNCL's ALPA or pilot group. You should consider keeping some comments to yourself and do a better job faking the "brothers in aviation" sentiment.

Doesn't matter what people at Colgan want to do or not do with Pinnacle ALPA or the pilot group. Why? Because the bottom line, THEY got BOUGHT out by OUR holding company (which was a bullsh*t thing to begin with, Pinnacle Corp was formed SOLELY to bypass our scope clauses. We are Pinnacle Inc.) That's horsesh*t!

"Brothers in aviation" sentiment is still here, and the brothers are telling every Colgan pilot to vote in ALPA. NOW!

It doesn't matter what Colgan wants or doesn't want. It doesn't matter what your opinion is of Pinnacle ALPA or our pilot group. The bottom line is you got bought out, so get ready to get ALPA on your property ASAP if you guys know what's best for you.

 

[PCL_128]

This is the sort of thing that I was referring to when I wrote about 9E sabotaging the 9L vote. As an organizing committee member I was constantly defending the shyte that was being posted by PCL128, Flyer1015, Dointime, etc. about what would happen if CJC didn't vite in ALPA. You three are personally responsible for planting doubt in those 4 guys. The best thing you could do this year is shut your holes.

You were an OC member? Great. I probably met you then. I was at almost every event on the east coast, and many of the events in IAH. Which events did you attend? Since no one ever said anything to me about "sabotaging" the campaign (quite the opposite in fact, since the OC was thrilled to have a member of the MEC there to support them), I assume that you didn't attend any events and talk to me about your concerns. In all of the events that I attended, and the hundreds of questions I answered, I also never had a single CJC pilot express a concern about something said by anyone on FI. In other words, I think you're statement is bogus.

 

[suupah]

Doesn't matter what people at Colgan want to do or not do with Pinnacle ALPA or the pilot group. Why? Because the bottom line, THEY got BOUGHT out by OUR holding company (which was a bullsh*t thing to begin with, Pinnacle Corp was formed SOLELY to bypass our scope clauses. We are Pinnacle Inc.) That's horsesh*t!

"Brothers in aviation" sentiment is still here, and the brothers are telling every Colgan pilot to vote in ALPA. NOW!

It doesn't matter what Colgan wants or doesn't want. It doesn't matter what your opinion is of Pinnacle ALPA or our pilot group. The bottom line is you got bought out, so get ready to get ALPA on your property ASAP if you guys know what's best for you.

you, are a fricken tool, you work for pncl and have no claim to what they do with their earnings. Nor do you have any claim to what CJC pilots decide.

So on behalf of all cjc pilots let me be the first to say:
Flyer1015 you can kiss my a$$ and lick my brajul you friggin bukyak.

everytime you see a colgan pilot he is personally saying this to you but all you hear is "hi"

 

[suupah]

You were an OC member? Great. I probably met you then. I was at almost every event on the east coast, and many of the events in IAH. Which events did you attend? Since no one ever said anything to me about "sabotaging" the campaign (quite the opposite in fact, since the OC was thrilled to have a member of the MEC there to support them), I assume that you didn't attend any events and talk to me about your concerns. In all of the events that I attended, and the hundreds of questions I answered, I also never had a single CJC pilot express a concern about something said by anyone on FI. In other words, I think you're statement is bogus.

I am also on the OC and very well in tune with the pilot group here and I am telling you, you guys need to reign in the mouths of many of your pilots because they are the reason many at CJC want NOTHING to do with pncl ALPA. Like it or not, it is the truth.

 

[PCL_128]

I am also on the OC and very well in tune with the pilot group here and I am telling you, you guys need to reign in the mouths of many of your pilots because they are the reason many at CJC want NOTHING to do with pncl ALPA. Like it or not, it is the truth.

I agree, but I personally have been quite consistent over the past two years, including the time I was on the MEC, in telling the CJC pilots that I support a DOH or ratio'd merger and only want what is fair for both pilot groups. I've never "threatened" the CJC pilots with anything. I believe the PCL MEC is going out of their way to be fair to the CJC pilots.

 

[Flyer1015]

you, are a fricken tool, you work for pncl and have no claim to what they do with their earnings. Nor do you have any claim to what CJC pilots decide.

Do you work at Pinnacle, seriously? "Have no claim to what they do with their earnings."

That's OUR earnings, earned off OUR backs.

Those Q400s for Colgan were bought using the convertible note earned from NWA, again, money EARNED OFF OUR HARD WORKING BACKS!

And this is AFTER they cought a money-losing airline for $20 million, and then awarded them new aircraft using the convertible note, again, earned from the hardworking Pinnacle pilots.

Money used to grow ANOTHER airline (Colgan).

Then, the company has the BALLS to tell us that our MEC contract proposal WILL BANKRUPT THE COMPANY!



I will not stand for that type of horsesh*t! And neither should you, if you work at Pinnacle.

So on behalf of all cjc pilots let me be the first to say:
Flyer1015 you can kiss my a$$ and lick my brajul you friggin bukyak.

everytime you see a colgan pilot he is personally saying this to you but all you hear is "hi"

I don't know any Colgan pilots. You can kiss a$$ all day long, apparently you already do considering you believe management's lies.

 

[Fozzy]

There is not a single Net Jets pilot who is complaining about their net jets contract. Have you read their contract? How could they complain about it?! They left the teamsters for personal reasons - they were large enough to support themselves and not pay the IBT National and take the burden on themselves. I don't think that's an option for little Colgan's pilot group.

Can't believe that I am wading into this.
IBT sucks. They did absolutely NOTHING for the NJA pilot group. The 2005 CBA came about by the hard work, "ice in our veins" mentality of the PILOTS. The teamsters brought NOTHING to the table. They actually endorsed the
uke:2004 "POS" TA that was voted down by ~95%. Did you folks hear that? The TA endorsed by the IBT, Airline Division and Local 284 (truck driver local we belonged to before 1108) was defeated by the NJA pilots by ~95%. They thought it was a great contract, we figured we would rather STFD and work at Walmart. The pilots got the 2005 CBA. The pilots got the IBB (Interest based bargaining) turned CBA 2007. The IBT knew nothing of this until it was all wrapped up. Sorry, please do not use the NJA CBA's as a reason to stay/go with IBT.
ALPA, or in-house if you can swing it. IBT knows nothing of pilots. The Airline division is just a name on a door of an empty office, nothing else.

Good luck.

 

[Afraid to Fly]

Everyone needs to relax, get laid tonight, then continue the thread on Monday.

 

[suupah]

I don't know any Colgan pilots. You can kiss a$$ all day long, apparently you already do considering you believe management's lies.

You don't know a thing about me and what I believe.

But I am in the middle of this right now and I am telling you that we need you guys to clip the lip. You are sabotaging this entire process with your careless comments just like last year.

 

[Turtlesfly]

You don't know a thing about me and what I believe.

But I am in the middle of this right now and I am telling you that we need you guys to clip the lip. You are sabotaging this entire process with your careless comments just like last year.

Flyer1015 is right as verified by the JUDGE. That is, your company was bought and grown by PCL's hard work. You got bought - you don't have any say without representation. If you're counting on the senior PCL's pilots to just be nice and integrate you out of the goodness of their hearts when you're not ALPA . . . .

 

[suupah]

Flyer1015 is right as verified by the JUDGE. That is, your company was bought and grown by PCL's hard work. You got bought - you don't have any say without representation. If you're counting on the senior PCL's pilots to just be nice and integrate you out of the goodness of their hearts when you're not ALPA . . . .

You missed the point. If you truly want CJC to become ALPA then you could greatly help the cause by not spreading this kind of rhetoric. like it or not, this is hurting the cause. If you don't care then spread away.

 

[better up here]

suupah is right. as stupid as these anonymous chat line sewing circles are, all the bad vibe that a few PCL posters put up does cause many cjc'ers to turn his/her nose up at you. and alpa.

we didn't want to be bought, and we didn't want your hard earned money for a few new planes. go be angry at your management, and tell your side of the alpa story with a little more tact.

 

[DoinTime]

we didn't want to be bought, and we didn't want your hard earned money for a few new planes. go be angry at your management, and tell your side of the alpa story with a little more tact.

True words. To be fair though I've witnessed Colgan pilots on this board often take comments from Pinnacle pilots about Colgan personally. I have never met a Pinnacle pilot who has a single grip about a Colgan pilot. You will find nearly unanimous animosity over our management's purchase of Colgan though.

If you think you have a bunch of pissed of pilots at Colgan complaining that you were bought by us, then go ahead and multiply that number by three and you'll know what its like over here.

 

[Flyer1015]

Ok, ok, I'm sorry.


But I will truly laugh if the Colgan group turns down ALPA for the second time...........

Hopefully you boys now know better.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You missed the point. If you truly want CJC to become ALPA then you could greatly help the cause by not spreading this kind of rhetoric. like it or not, this is hurting the cause. If you don't care then spread away.

I think you are missing the point...

The 9E pilots want CJC to be ALPA for everyone's interests. But if Colgan pilots reject ALPA....again... then the 9e pilots will protect themselves...

The problem is the colgan pilots will cry foul as they feel pain and the blame game and divide and conquer begins...

The 9E pilots know this... call it friendly advice... the CJC pilots can choose their own path... just ensure the CJC pilots accept responsibility for thier choices...