Senior Discount at Flexjet?

[Dooker]

I just got an auto-generated email asking me to congratulate one of my distant LinkeIn connections for starting a new job as a first officer at Flexjet.

When I looked at his profile, I saw that he graduated college in 1970.

Wow. Just ... wow.

 

[EnFuego]

Ouch, I'm sorry for his luck.

 

[squawk]

I just got an auto-generated email asking me to congratulate one of my distant LinkeIn connections for starting a new job as a first officer at Flexjet.

When I looked at his profile, I saw that he graduated college in 1970.

Wow. Just ... wow.

The stock lockers will be supplied with fresh tennis balls for the newhire walkers.

 

[MOMOMOJO]

The stock lockers will be supplied with fresh tennis balls for the newhire walkers.

Squawk all jabbing aside I think we can both agree Flexjet will not be getting any desirable candidates for a very long time if not forever. Here's what our hiring will look like:

1.) We'll get young inexperienced candidates looking to build enough time to qualify for 121. Any candidate under 35 who is smart enough to take a broad view of aviation won't be caught working 30 years without a union.

2.) We'll get mid-age rejects who couldn't get another job or are attracted only by money and do not value QOL. Yeah, those guys are always fun. Not.

3.) Geezers and retirees who either can't hang it up due to a lack of home life or mismanaged their money so irresponsibly they can't afford to hang it up. Once again, painful to fly with.

The longterm repercussions to our pilot group are tremendous. Sure the business (DAC more importantly than Flexjet) will make money, Kenn will capitalize on his coup with a certain segment of owners and as long as we can avoid a fatality (doubtful given the above) investors (and owners) will remain invested. But the pilot group will suffer, more importantly pilots themselves will suffer. Mark my words in 10 years the industry will speak of you the same way you would often speak of FLOPS pilots back in the day.

Are you not at all curious why DAC had to buy a new name with a certain amount of credibility instead of fix the issues at Options? Has it occurred to you it's because they have no desire to fix anything? The new name gives them at least a decade of great brand recognition but sooner or later chickens always come home to roost.

You can deny the exodus all you want but come fall we are up a creek. We are already hurting but summer is masking the blow. It's crazy we are flying 5 and 6 leg days as a routine in late June.

I'm done arguing. The realization of just exactly how much of a collasal mistake voting out the union instead of fixing it was will happen soon enough.

Anyone I know with any sense of self worth is making an exit plan. You yourself admitted your new type was part of your own exit plan but now you are drinking Kool Aid? I don’t buy it.

In the grand scheme of things not being unioned hurts only one group - the pilots. Woe to you and your group when the majority realizes that fact.

All the vote really did was solidify Flexjet's place as a bottom feeder and you know it. Otherwise you wouldn't have made the joke above.

 

[DirtyBeech]

Setting aside the DAC mgt style/union debate for a second and just focusing on the realities of the current hiring climate is enough to realize that the fracs are in trouble with regard to recruiting.

There will always be desirable candidates who show up and want to stay because of where they live, a strong desire to do corporate style flying or previous jobs and retirements providing the financial freedom to accept lesser compensation, benefits and QOL for whatever reason they use to follow the fractional lifestyle. But that well will run close to dry now that the lost decade is over.

All the airlines need a lot of pilots, and there’s 2-3 based at a town near you unless you really live deep in the sticks ( and that’s not to say some deepstick places aren’t fantastic places to live).

The fracs could raise compensation, bring retirements up to current direct contribution standards and a host of other things, but it’s still a model that is most efficient running 6-8 days at a time on the road, and doing 5-6 legs a day given current staffing levels at most of the outfits. And it’s still a lot of time spent doing things in airplanes (cleaning, stocking, lavs etc.) that no one dreamed about in flight school.

It will be interesting to watch how the industry reacts over the next decade or so. The uber wealthy will always want their air limos and service to exotic destinations or airports that skip the major airport hustle and bustle. How fractional will attract candidates to do the flying is another matter.

Stepping slightly back on to the union/no union bit....how NJ’s and DAC attack the problem will be something worth noting.

 

[squawk]

Squawk all jabbing aside I think we can both agree Flexjet will not be getting any desirable candidates for a very long time if not forever. Here's what our hiring will look like:

1.) We'll get young inexperienced candidates looking to build enough time to qualify for 121. Any candidate under 35 who is smart enough to take a broad view of aviation won't be caught working 30 years without a union.

2.) We'll get mid-age rejects who couldn't get another job or are attracted only by money and do not value QOL. Yeah, those guys are always fun. Not.

3.) Geezers and retirees who either can't hang it up due to a lack of home life or mismanaged their money so irresponsibly they can't afford to hang it up. Once again, painful to fly with.

The longterm repercussions to our pilot group are tremendous. Sure the business (DAC more importantly than Flexjet) will make money, Kenn will capitalize on his coup with a certain segment of owners and as long as we can avoid a fatality (doubtful given the above) investors (and owners) will remain invested. But the pilot group will suffer, more importantly pilots themselves will suffer. Mark my words in 10 years the industry will speak of you the same way you would often speak of FLOPS pilots back in the day.

Are you not at all curious why DAC had to buy a new name with a certain amount of credibility instead of fix the issues at Options? Has it occurred to you it's because they have no desire to fix anything? The new name gives them at least a decade of great brand recognition but sooner or later chickens always come home to roost.

You can deny the exodus all you want but come fall we are up a creek. We are already hurting but summer is masking the blow. It's crazy we are flying 5 and 6 leg days as a routine in late June.

I'm done arguing. The realization of just exactly how much of a collasal mistake voting out the union instead of fixing it was will happen soon enough.

Anyone I know with any sense of self worth is making an exit plan. You yourself admitted your new type was part of your own exit plan but now you are drinking Kool Aid? I don’t buy it.

In the grand scheme of things not being unioned hurts only one group - the pilots. Woe to you and your group when the majority realizes that fact.

All the vote really did was solidify Flexjet's place as a bottom feeder and you know it. Otherwise you wouldn't have made the joke above.

First, big mistake in identity. I never once said any training at FJ was part of an “exit plan”. Never was in the back of anyone’s truck or anywhere near it. Why are you and DirtyBeech always trying to dox people in here? And, Flexjet is no bottom feeder and never will be.

Second, you admit the Union needed “fixing”. You are right about that! FJ pilots shed a broken union that had perfected mismanagement and mistrust.

Third, your predictions are fogged by discontent. You are a glass half empty guy. How can you predict the future of this industry from your worm’s eye view of a complete outsider from strategic market intelligence. You don’t and won’t EVER sit at that table. You never account for industry consolidation which probably has to happen. An increasing cost structure could cause contraction and right-sizing. As cost goes up, the private air experience becomes more rarified. Your linear thinking is not MBA worthy.

Fourth, your screen name is all wrong. It should be changed to Chicken Little, or even better, Eeyore, the gloomy, pessimistic jackass.

 

[Kermit_D_Frog]

Wonder who actually wrote that?

 

[squawk]

Wonder who actually wrote that?

Squawk

 

[EnFuego]

Is anyone else going to the dinner tonight? I'm hoping they clarify the SLI and red label expansion. But I'm going to try to make notes on the whole presentation. Stay tuned...

 

[Kermit_D_Frog]

Early bird special for the new hires?

 

[EnFuego]

The biggest news I got out of the evening was that two more large cabin pilots are quitting and at least three more from the non red label group are quitting.

 

[I'mBack]

#FakeNews by EnFuego - why don't you tell us all what was discussed then? I'll call your BS now. You don't have a single productive thing to add.

#LifeLesson#3 - Don't Live Your Life as a Liar
- We know that you lie to make your life more convenient, at the inconveniance of others
- You post #fakenews because you don't know how to articulate a thoughtful opinion
- You are hindered from becoming a happy member of society because you are a failure in so many other areas
- Even though you know it, you don't feel like dealing with your internal issues and prefer to project your anger on the company that hired you

There you go EnFuego my friend. A lesson in lying less.

 

[exagony]

#FakeNews by EnFuego - why don't you tell us all what was discussed then? I'll call your BS now. You don't have a single productive thing to add.

#LifeLesson#3 - Don't Live Your Life as a Liar
- We know that you lie to make your life more convenient, at the inconveniance of others
- You post #fakenews because you don't know how to articulate a thoughtful opinion
- You are hindered from becoming a happy member of society because you are a failure in so many other areas
- Even though you know it, you don't feel like dealing with your internal issues and prefer to project your anger on the company that hired you

There you go EnFuego my friend. A lesson in lying less.

Spoken by “imback” the king of all liars

 

[EnFuego]

What did I say that is not true? I got the names from one of the pilots I talked to. I talked to one of the large cabin guys and two of the others. So if my info is inaccurate, it's not for lack of verification on my part. The rest was fluff.

 

[DirtyBeech]

Spoken by “imback” the king of all liars

It’s funny watching chicken little masquerade as a new hire, and have the complete and utter lack of self awareness to call others a liar when his whole persona is....a lie.

And do you know how I know who he is? Because I’ve only hinted at (hinted mind you, not created an account and called someone by name like a certain individual did) the identities of 3 posters on this forum, and suddenly mods were contacted about the use of such references after years of no one caring. In fact, they were used after I used the exact initials quoted by one of the 3 who complained about “doxing” as squawk put it.

Why the sudden emphasis on protecting themselves....

1. Because they are who I hinted they are.

2. Because they were banned for actually using my name.

2. Because they’d really like me to be banned.

Food for thought for the dim witted hashtag users and bird flippers who post their tripe here.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

I'm a glass half -full guy but I just paid top dollar for a cheap wine. People are pessimistic because the company has let them down so many times. Why do we still have FO's with a 2001 hire date and the corresponding low pay? As far as MBA material and your linear thinking... Maybe the re-alignment is because we can't sell the shares. Now we can refocus on service without the hindrance of the Union. What will be the next excuse? And these MBA experts, didn't they tell Fred Smith of Fed Ex his idea wouldn't work?

 

[EnFuego]

Let me try this a different way. Since you are brand new (by your own admission), maybe something from that dinner was new to you. But for those of us who have been here for many years, there was nothing that hasn't been in a previous email, press released to AIN or similar and/or talked about by the CPs during their anti union campaign stops in TEB, IAD etc. The only thing I hadn't heard was the latest group of pilots who are moving on. That is not a slam on management. There were probably more guys like you who walked away with info you didn't know than guys like me who had already read/heard this stuff. Good for you, but don't try to label me as slamming my employer because I've paid better attention than you and already got the info.

 

[I'mBack]

WOW - the #Echochamber is back! #Round2. Ding Ding. I guess I would be upset too if SWA didn't hire me after what sounds like 2 attempts (sourced on APC).

EnFuego - when will you stop? You know nothing!

People know who we all are; I've received several "way to go" taps on my back for calling the BS. I am new here; I'm not hiding.

If you were there then where were you during the dinner? Remind us what group you were in? Easy one, how many people showed up? How about you just tell us what you ate that night. You sit on a thrown of lies my friend.

Your statement that you "talked to one of the large cabin guys" is complete BS. I met both large cabin guys that were there and both are in the G650. Are you telling us that one of the G650 pilots is quitting? #BUSTED.

Something? Anything? You offered nothing in your post because you were not there.

If that's not enough; let’s talk about that "fluff" as you put it.

For those of you that were there; this is what actually happened. There was no fluff. It was actually very productive.

1. We talked about QOL issues
2. Several pilots in my group brought up operational thoughts
3. Rumors that were out there

So there you go EnFuego - we know you are a Liar and that is why you received #LifeLesson#3.

 

[EnFuego]

Nothing new...and one of the guys leaving is a g450 pilot and the other is global I believe. QOL and operational issues are as old as Flexjet. We never had rumors when we were Bombardier though. We were informed so well there was never a gap big enough for a rumor to slide through. Those have become rampant only since December 2013.

 

[I'mBack]

#GreatComeBack EnFuego... next.