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And they shouldn't he needs to be isolated with all other Scabs. They have been willing to put themselves on a list saying they are not afraid to screw over their fellow pilot. We need to put them on a list saying your the Plague. Not one of those scum that commented on that petition should ever be forgotten
 
It really takes a lot of bulls to pubLICKly put your name on a useless petition that blatantly admits you are willing to backstab your fellow pilots for your personal gain.. Is this going to be one of those lists that never goes away? Its going to take a ruling by a Federal Court to stop that list from being circulated-OH, but wait the company's track record in Federal Court isn't that good.
 
This list needs to be made public to every pilot at every company out there. These guys want to put their name out there like that we need to make the Infamous... this list needs to be circulated in every FBO and flight dept from sea to shining sea
A mass mailing to every airline union, Airline and flight Dept with those names should be sent out. Come on 1108. Need some serious offense here. This is the most dispicable thing I think I have ever seen in this industry
 
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GlorifiedCabbie said:
It really takes a lot of bulls to pubLICKly put your name on a useless petition that blatantly admits you are willing to backstab your fellow pilots for your personal gain.. Is this going to be one of those lists that never goes away? Its going to take a ruling by a Federal Court to stop that list from being circulated-OH, but wait the company's track record in Federal Court isn't that good.
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"Stabbed in the back"? You guys (Flops and the IBT) stabbed Flexjet in the back with the sli.
 
el raton said:
"Stabbed in the back"? You guys (Flops and the IBT) stabbed Flexjet in the back with the sli.
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Yo dumbazz.....3 of your FLEX-Jetters signed off on the SLI, so you need to blame them. Come up with a new arguement.

Talk to an RTA guy if you want to hear about Riccis idea of SLI without a union.

Dam man
 
The SLI is fair and equitable. It will be implemented. Get over yourself.
 
el raton said:
"Stabbed in the back"? You guys (Flops and the IBT) stabbed Flexjet in the back with the sli.
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The difference between this petition and the SLI is, this petition is self-serving as opposed to the SLI which looks at the pilot group as a whole. Uncle wants infighting and you are falling for it. Wake up!
 
GlorifiedCabbie said:
The difference between this petition and the SLI is, this petition is self-serving as opposed to the SLI which looks at the pilot group as a whole. Uncle wants infighting and you are falling for it. Wake up!
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We need to face facts. The SLI sucks for for some and for 30 Flexjetters it really, really sucks. Until we are willing to admit that guys like el raton will never listen to another thing said and this is a guy who was once very pro union. Solve the problems the SLI issue created and you have him back. Am I speaking out of context el?

It true Ricci created this mess and it is also true SLI under Ricci would be an FoK staple you will never win on. But just saying that over and over doesn't fix it.

Have we considered some type of bypass pay solution to be written into the contract for these guys? I am not arguing sli - it was a neccessary evil and the best job that could have been done was done. However, that doesn't negate the possibility of making lemonade for guys like el raton.

At least propose it and make Ricci the one to deny it. That should cut this pointless infighting out at the root.
 
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On a percentage basis I lost as much as any Flexjetter but I'm not crying over it like a little bitch, time to move beyond SLI and get a decent contract, or you can Waller in self pity and be distracted, which make no mistake is what this management is counting on. I Choose to support our Union of Pilots for Pilots, If you are an IGM you can Piss off and tell someone that cares. It sure seems not many Flex Pilots were concerned when Onesky Managment allowed a bunch of self serving IGM's come to Flex and fly the G450's and Globals so why get your panties in a wad over an SLI that was determined democratically by an equal share of Fight Options and Flex Pilots. We faired far better than if Managment had settled SLI. Everyone should have insight into how management would have done it if left to there own devices, FOK's at the Top everyone else at the bottom. Again who is flying Flex's G450's and Globals?
 
Honorstudent said:
On a percentage basis I lost as much as any Flexjetter but I'm not crying over it like a little bitch, time to move beyond SLI and get a decent contract, or you can Waller in self pity and be distracted, which make no mistake is what this management is counting on. I Choose to support our Union of Pilots for Pilots, If you are an IGM you can Piss off and tell someone that cares. It sure seems not many Flex Pilots were concerned when Onesky Managment allowed a bunch of self serving IGM's come to Flex and fly the G450's and Globals so why get your panties in a wad over an SLI that was determined democratically by an equal share of Fight Options and Flex Pilots. We faired far better than if Managment had settled SLI. Everyone should have insight into how management would have done it if left to there own devices, FOK's at the Top everyone else at the bottom. Again who is flying Flex's G450's and Globals?
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Great post, especially the part about transfers flying Gulfstreams and Globals yet some are upset over SLI. Doesn't make sense. If Fred Reid and a Dave Gross had conceived a scheme such as Red Label vs. non-Red Label, we'd burned the house down on Yammer. For some reason, they're ok with Ricci and company doing it.
 
Honorstudent said:
On a percentage basis I lost as much as any Flexjetter but I'm not crying over it like a little bitch, time to move beyond SLI and get a decent contract, or you can Waller in self pity and be distracted, which make no mistake is what this management is counting on. I Choose to support our Union of Pilots for Pilots, If you are an IGM you can Piss off and tell someone that cares. It sure seems not many Flex Pilots were concerned when Onesky Managment allowed a bunch of self serving IGM's come to Flex and fly the G450's and Globals so why get your panties in a wad over an SLI that was determined democratically by an equal share of Fight Options and Flex Pilots. We faired far better than if Managment had settled SLI. Everyone should have insight into how management would have done it if left to there own devices, FOK's at the Top everyone else at the bottom. Again who is flying Flex's G450's and Globals?
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Oh really? So you lost as much as anyone huh?

Considering only 29 lost any considerable amount and only one of them has anything to do with the union, thanks for outing yourself. As much as I enjoyed and agreed with your public roasting losers like JL and RH your statement above is just a prime example why no one wants to sign on with you guys in an public way.

At some point as leadership you are going to have to get right with the fact the union, while the best we got, occasionally does hand out a few bitter pills.

I get that you have to consider the pilot group as a whole and I'm grateful for your attitude in that respect and the incredible effort I have know you have personally extended but dude, get over yourself. There is no need to tell a guy whose career expectations were decimated in the interest of 600 other pilots to STFU. That doesn't even sound like you and you're better than that.

Considering you serve in two prime positions why don't you use your position to look at ways to help guys like el raton swallow that pill with a little sweet lemonade. Maybe propose some type of bypass pay type of consideration for anyone who lost more than 10%. Or come up with a different idea. But seriously whatever you do, don't yell at him. Fix his damn problem and maybe you'll regain his support. It's not like we can afford to just start burning bridges around here regardless of whatever the judge might rule.
 
Oh and "honorsstudent" don't talk to us about FoKs and IGMs when you have them serving alongside you in leadership. You have no room for moral highground when you guys say do what we say and not as we do.

That's BS right there.
 
Imp, not sure who you think I am? But I will respond once to your drivel. As a pilot on either property you may Option 1) support the company's side which has always been Kenn is the best spokesmen for all pilots. 2) Get behind this Union and support it. 3) Move on. I can tell you with certainty a decert drive is on its way, you no longer want a Union send a card in and vote it out. But until then the Pilots that support a Union are the Union, not sure who the FOK,s and IGM's are in our Union Leadership? I do not know of anyone in Leadership flying a G450 or Global, perhaps since your in the know you should out them.
 
Oh I see we are now at the point where we try to redefine the terms FoK and IGM to include only the international guys because leadership can't stand the hypocrisy of the fact several of the poc and and current leadership sit in domestic red label where they make 40% more than guys like me or el raton for doing the same job. That's what I am referring to HS. How completely effing entitled do you have to be to have your cake and eat it too while in the meantime having the nerve to tell other guys who have been potentially monetarily damaged in this fight through SLI to STFU.

So you claim you were damaged by SLI worse then el raton who has previously stated he was one of the screwed 29. So that means as leadership you can only be one person. So you are either he or are completely out of touch with reality and cannot possibly speak to his concerns in the manner which you have dripping with such seething disrespect for that reality. Recognize the fact that while yes it was good for the pilot group as a whole some guys - 29 guys - really paid the price. That's not me saying you did a bad job. But is is me saying it is within your control to contain the damage with some creative planning. And you come back at me with more BS?

A simple suggestion to correct a problem that will continue to keep our ranks low until it is resolved is all that happened here but then you go off half cocked against two guys who have been some of the unions biggest supporters here on Flifo without being involved in your tainted ranks of leadership. You lost el with SLI and your getting awfully close to losing me with your hubris.

Congrats on winning the lawsuit today but your response just made me not give a ******************** anymore, at least for now.
 
I think honorstudent is an Options pilot.
 
I have had my share of fights on here with union and non union types. NO SLI has ever been perfect. But the real anger and effort should be focused on the IGM scum that posted on that petition. Everyone of them should be the focus. How many times does someone have to kick you in the balls before you kick back!!! This pilot group is pathetic
 
Imissmypilot said:
Oh I see we are now at the point where we try to redefine the terms FoK and IGM to include only the international guys because leadership can't stand the hypocrisy of the fact several of the poc and and current leadership sit in domestic red label where they make 40% more than guys like me or el raton for doing the same job. That's what I am referring to HS. How completely effing entitled do you have to be to have your cake and eat it too while in the meantime having the nerve to tell other guys who have been potentially monetarily damaged in this fight through SLI to STFU.

So you claim you were damaged by SLI worse then el raton who has previously stated he was one of the screwed 29. So that means as leadership you can only be one person. So you are either he or are completely out of touch with reality and cannot possibly speak to his concerns in the manner which you have dripping with such seething disrespect for that reality. Recognize the fact that while yes it was good for the pilot group as a whole some guys - 29 guys - really paid the price. That's not me saying you did a bad job. But is is me saying it is within your control to contain the damage with some creative planning. And you come back at me with more BS?

A simple suggestion to correct a problem that will continue to keep our ranks low until it is resolved is all that happened here but then you go off half cocked against two guys who have been some of the unions biggest supporters here on Flifo without being involved in your tainted ranks of leadership. You lost el with SLI and your getting awfully close to losing me with your hubris.

Congrats on winning the lawsuit today but your response just made me not give a ******************** anymore, at least for now.
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I am neither union leadership, or a red label pilot, but I'm curious how you would fix things for these 29 guys you speak of? It seems to me that the biggest problem they have is that their hire date is after everyone else's. That's a problem that's pretty hard to fix.
 
Praetorian said:
I am neither union leadership, or a red label pilot, but I'm curious how you would fix things for these 29 guys you speak of? It seems to me that the biggest problem they have is that their hire date is after everyone else's. That's a problem that's pretty hard to fix.
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I already said: we could ammend our propsed contract to make bypass pass type considerations for anyone who lost xx% of their seniority to male up for a significant loss of career expectations. Or guarantee once a captain always paid a captain. The last one is simpler.

Right now every one of the Flex 29 is a mid fleet captain. After SLI takes effect if they move fleets (or if their fleet goes away) they are the only group that will lose left seat.

Many Options guys will gain enough seniority overnight to bid and keep left seat. That is awesome. Seriously.

But for these 29 guys, most now late 40s plus if not more there is simply not enough time for them to make going backward worth it.

I understand system flush but I also understand crafty Farquaad will figure out a way around it. No wonder these guys are upset amd with the way we've treated them (myself included on occasion) it's no wonder we lost their suppport. Since SLI happened before the dues requirement it's hard to establish but I can guarantee you before it those 29 were 85% supporters.
 
Imissmypilot said:
I already said: we could ammend our propsed contract to make bypass pass type considerations for anyone who lost xx% of their seniority to male up for a significant loss of career expectations. Or guarantee once a captain always paid a captain. The last one is simpler.

Right now every one of the Flex 29 is a mid fleet captain. After SLI takes effect if they move fleets (or if their fleet goes away) they are the only group that will lose left seat.

Many Options guys will gain enough seniority overnight to bid and keep left seat. That is awesome. Seriously.

But for these 29 guys, most now late 40s plus if not more there is simply not enough time for them to make going backward worth it.

I understand system flush but I also understand crafty Farquaad will figure out a way around it. No wonder these guys are upset amd with the way we've treated them (myself included on occasion) it's no wonder we lost their suppport. Since SLI happened before the dues requirement it's hard to establish but I can guarantee you before it those 29 were 85% supporters.
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Thanks for the reply. From previous experience it seems there is a lot of contractural ground to cover between now and a CBA. But at least as of yesterday it seems we have a federal Judge behind us.

Until then we need to stand behind our union. You hear what I'm saying?
 
Praetorian said:
Thanks for the reply. From previous experience it seems there is a lot of contractural ground to cover between now and a CBA. But at least as of yesterday it seems we have a federal Judge behind us.

Until then we need to stand behind our union. You hear what I'm saying?
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Yes I do and I intend to. But I want there to be some others standing with me. And the union putting one small paragraph in their pay section would accomplish that goal. Let the company argue it and be the bad guy.

Win win either way.

I guarantee you if we are sympathetic to this concern these 29 rightfully have because of Ricci's unpredictability it would bear fruit.

Flush is one thing but bumping rights is what is keeping these guys up at night. Management is keen to this concern and is constantly thowing chum into the water. The latest is the current judges ruling gives transfers bumping rights. Seriously. That's the new insane rumor.
 
Bumped to what? They're all CL or Legacy CA's. What fleet are they going to transfer to that pays better that they could hold by seniority under a contract? They're not. The CL's aren't going away. They're our bread and butter. Legacy TBD. So as long they don't try to jump back down to a Lear they're fine.
 
Actually in this contract no one bumps down to sic if I remember correctly. If you are furloughed then all bets are off.
 
Imissmypilot said:
Then he is also a melodramatic nancy. He said he lost as much as anyone in the SLI and if he's Options then that is just laughable.

Enough said.
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He could have been a Travel Air pilot. We have been thru this before and we know how Kenn thinks. The one to blame is Kenn. The furloughed pilots from Options also didn't fair well.
 

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