A two-legged animal with a corkscrew soul

[shanes123]

I have had my share of fights on here with union and non union types. NO SLI has ever been perfect. But the real anger and effort should be focused on the IGM scum that posted on that petition. Everyone of them should be the focus. How many times does someone have to kick you in the balls before you kick back!!! This pilot group is pathetic

 

[Praetorian]

Oh I see we are now at the point where we try to redefine the terms FoK and IGM to include only the international guys because leadership can't stand the hypocrisy of the fact several of the poc and and current leadership sit in domestic red label where they make 40% more than guys like me or el raton for doing the same job. That's what I am referring to HS. How completely effing entitled do you have to be to have your cake and eat it too while in the meantime having the nerve to tell other guys who have been potentially monetarily damaged in this fight through SLI to STFU.

So you claim you were damaged by SLI worse then el raton who has previously stated he was one of the screwed 29. So that means as leadership you can only be one person. So you are either he or are completely out of touch with reality and cannot possibly speak to his concerns in the manner which you have dripping with such seething disrespect for that reality. Recognize the fact that while yes it was good for the pilot group as a whole some guys - 29 guys - really paid the price. That's not me saying you did a bad job. But is is me saying it is within your control to contain the damage with some creative planning. And you come back at me with more BS?

A simple suggestion to correct a problem that will continue to keep our ranks low until it is resolved is all that happened here but then you go off half cocked against two guys who have been some of the unions biggest supporters here on Flifo without being involved in your tainted ranks of leadership. You lost el with SLI and your getting awfully close to losing me with your hubris.

Congrats on winning the lawsuit today but your response just made me not give a ******************** anymore, at least for now.

I am neither union leadership, or a red label pilot, but I'm curious how you would fix things for these 29 guys you speak of? It seems to me that the biggest problem they have is that their hire date is after everyone else's. That's a problem that's pretty hard to fix.

 

[shanes123]

It's easy to fix. Put them in the seat their number holds.

 

[Imissmypilot]

I am neither union leadership, or a red label pilot, but I'm curious how you would fix things for these 29 guys you speak of? It seems to me that the biggest problem they have is that their hire date is after everyone else's. That's a problem that's pretty hard to fix.

I already said: we could ammend our propsed contract to make bypass pass type considerations for anyone who lost xx% of their seniority to male up for a significant loss of career expectations. Or guarantee once a captain always paid a captain. The last one is simpler.

Right now every one of the Flex 29 is a mid fleet captain. After SLI takes effect if they move fleets (or if their fleet goes away) they are the only group that will lose left seat.

Many Options guys will gain enough seniority overnight to bid and keep left seat. That is awesome. Seriously.

But for these 29 guys, most now late 40s plus if not more there is simply not enough time for them to make going backward worth it.

I understand system flush but I also understand crafty Farquaad will figure out a way around it. No wonder these guys are upset amd with the way we've treated them (myself included on occasion) it's no wonder we lost their suppport. Since SLI happened before the dues requirement it's hard to establish but I can guarantee you before it those 29 were 85% supporters.

 

[Imissmypilot]

I think honorstudent is an Options pilot.

Then he is also a melodramatic nancy. He said he lost as much as anyone in the SLI and if he's Options then that is just laughable.

Enough said.

 

[Praetorian]

I already said: we could ammend our propsed contract to make bypass pass type considerations for anyone who lost xx% of their seniority to male up for a significant loss of career expectations. Or guarantee once a captain always paid a captain. The last one is simpler.

Right now every one of the Flex 29 is a mid fleet captain. After SLI takes effect if they move fleets (or if their fleet goes away) they are the only group that will lose left seat.

Many Options guys will gain enough seniority overnight to bid and keep left seat. That is awesome. Seriously.

But for these 29 guys, most now late 40s plus if not more there is simply not enough time for them to make going backward worth it.

I understand system flush but I also understand crafty Farquaad will figure out a way around it. No wonder these guys are upset amd with the way we've treated them (myself included on occasion) it's no wonder we lost their suppport. Since SLI happened before the dues requirement it's hard to establish but I can guarantee you before it those 29 were 85% supporters.

Thanks for the reply. From previous experience it seems there is a lot of contractural ground to cover between now and a CBA. But at least as of yesterday it seems we have a federal Judge behind us.

Until then we need to stand behind our union. You hear what I'm saying?

 

[Imissmypilot]

Thanks for the reply. From previous experience it seems there is a lot of contractural ground to cover between now and a CBA. But at least as of yesterday it seems we have a federal Judge behind us.

Until then we need to stand behind our union. You hear what I'm saying?

Yes I do and I intend to. But I want there to be some others standing with me. And the union putting one small paragraph in their pay section would accomplish that goal. Let the company argue it and be the bad guy.

Win win either way.

I guarantee you if we are sympathetic to this concern these 29 rightfully have because of Ricci's unpredictability it would bear fruit.

Flush is one thing but bumping rights is what is keeping these guys up at night. Management is keen to this concern and is constantly thowing chum into the water. The latest is the current judges ruling gives transfers bumping rights. Seriously. That's the new insane rumor.

 

[DirtyBeech]

Bumped to what? They're all CL or Legacy CA's. What fleet are they going to transfer to that pays better that they could hold by seniority under a contract? They're not. The CL's aren't going away. They're our bread and butter. Legacy TBD. So as long they don't try to jump back down to a Lear they're fine.

 

[Bjtdrvr]

Actually in this contract no one bumps down to sic if I remember correctly. If you are furloughed then all bets are off.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Then he is also a melodramatic nancy. He said he lost as much as anyone in the SLI and if he's Options then that is just laughable.

Enough said.

He could have been a Travel Air pilot. We have been thru this before and we know how Kenn thinks. The one to blame is Kenn. The furloughed pilots from Options also didn't fair well.

 

[Imissmypilot]

Actually in this contract no one bumps down to sic if I remember correctly. If you are furloughed then all bets are off.

Awesome. Current or proposed CBA?

Why aren't we highlighting this? This is exactly the thing we need to highlight. Furloughs would have to cut very deep to make that a problem.

Dirty Beech my understanding is they are concerned aboyt being bumped into sic. If BJTDRVR is correct then this is all that needs to be said.

 

[Bjtdrvr]

The current contract. You do lose pay if you are bumped from a higher paying captain position to a lower one but no one is bumped down to sic.

I am not sure what the proposed contract says about this.

A few years ago the company moved pilots down and decided to tell them they would keep their current pay even though they were moving to a lower paying captain position. They did this without consulting the Union. So then there were a couple of senior pilots to those three who were now going to be making less. The Union approached the company about by pass pay and a loa for those couple of pilots and the company REFUSED! Of course this made the Union look bad but this is how management works. They do not want to be bound by anything!!!! In the proposed contract they (management) wants the Red Label pilots to be protected from furloughs by by passing them if there ever are furloughs.

 

[Imissmypilot]

Is this the delis debacle? Makes sense since he is the one perpetuating all the unease regarding bumping rights etc...

I'll have to go back and read the proposals but I hope this was an area they sought to tighten up given the history.

El raton has been awfully quiet. Does this fix your problem?

 

[slowtation capt]

Is this the delis debacle?

Would absolutely love to hear more about this

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

He didn't want to pay protect the SIC's when they got bumped from the Hawker, but boy did he cry like a baby when he got bumped and his pay got cut.

 

[Imissmypilot]

Yeah but thats not how he presents it to any and every Flexjetter who will listen.

And respectfully this is the problem with Flexjet. Our guys are waaayyyy to eager to believe a more intetesting story or unlikely promise than judge based on facts and reality.

If facts and reality were the only things we had to go on then hands down the union wins every time. But Uncle knows the personality profile of the pilots all too well and he hit the mother load of exploitation of that knowledge this time.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Well that says it all. There is no salvation for them, so as far as I'm concerned, their soul can rot in hell!

 

[shanes123]

Rot in Hell??? Gee if I would of said that I would be called angry and some other not nice names. And Rot in Hell is way out of line GC. I say Burn in Hell

 

[Mre52]

Hi Vinny
You know who this is. The cartoon is funny
The accusation is extremely unprofessional
READ THE PETITION!
It is a commentary on the idea of sending a letter to our owners and the financial implication on the entire pilot group Simple as that Hope you feel like a hero behind your keyboard tough guy How exactly is that self serving The group you hide behind took an action that will cost revenue and jobs Very foolish I just wanted to shine a light on avery bad tactic

 

[doh]

Hi Vinny
You know who this is. The cartoon is funny
The accusation is extremely unprofessional
READ THE PETITION!
It is a commentary on the idea of sending a letter to our owners and the financial implication on the entire pilot group Simple as that Hope you feel like a hero behind your keyboard tough guy How exactly is that self serving The group you hide behind took an action that will cost revenue and jobs Very foolish I just wanted to shine a light on avery bad tactic

It's unprofessional of Vinny to make such an accusation and hide behind his computer keyboard? But it was okay for you to do exactly that on yammer with your G Ray accusation? Got it. You are the biggest hypocrite scumbag pos out there. And I will be more than happy to say that to your face. Anytime.