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No "huge payraise" planned for Options pilots

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Fresh Air

Fresh Air

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Posts
122
The OneSky management surrogates who are whispering this into our ears are trying to snow us, big time. Kenn has already made it crystal clear, in his video, and also in practice with the transfers, what he considers "fair and equitable". In a rehash of the old "slide to poverty" scheme, Options pilots will slide over to the Flex payscale AT THEIR CURRENT RATE. For example, a 14 year small cabin Capt. at Options will enter the new payscale at the 7year Flex rate. Don't take my word for it, do your own research and learn. I't's a lose-lose scenario for us; if OneSky wins the election, it's "slide to poverty", no significant payraise. If the 1108 wins, OneSky will of course punish the pilots by withholding any raise and blame the Union as they always do. At least we get to negotiate for higher pay if the 1108 wins, with a CBA in 9 months or it goes to arbritration, which OneSky doesn't want. If OneSky wins, we are just plain out of luck.
 
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Arkitec, I’ll kindly spell your name correctly when your side decides it’s childish to disrespect my company, it’s management, and me, with their various name-calling….OK oh mysterious one?

993- you and your fellow lemmings prove every day(Yammer and VUH) what it will be like if you get in power. Constant, incessant, name calling, intimidation, and lying are the CORE IBT tactics. Posters to these sites claim they want to work with the company, but it is their words and actions that display their true intent.

Paying ANY money to a corrupt organization (that would be your Masters in Ohio who have been AGAIN recommended to be put under FEDERAL WATCH) that uses these tactics in trying to take over a company ) doesn’t make any sense. Let’s bring EVERYBODY’S pay up to scale by VOTING NO. If management then tries to screw us, we can partner with NJ or whatever….don’t keep repeating the LIE that the IBT is the only game in town.

I’ve met quite a few of the FO crews on the road now, and the majority are simply very fine guys/gals. They seem to wish for nothing better than to provide for themselves and their families as best they can. There is, however, a distinct minority that seems to sit around and brag about how they screwed the company doing this or that, how they called in sick or fatigued blah blah….not an atmosphere I care to be associated with. I understand why people call fatigued after 2-3 days of long hours, but not after 8 DAYS off and at 0730 the FIRST DAY ON as happened(apparently) last Sunday. Just “showing the man”, I suppose.

VOTING NO is the first step in getting out this corrupt union. We can go from there. The IBT scare tactics, demonization of management, etc have grown old and flaccid.
DO SOMETHING FOR YOURSELVES AND YOUR FAMILIES.
VOTE NO.
WL
 
WL"I’ll kindly spell your name correctly when your side decides it’s childish to disrespect my company, it’s management, and me, with their various name-calling." Then you go on to call 993 and other pilots "lemmings"? You are a hypocrite and I will not be silenced by you.
 
WL "If management then tries to screw us, we can partner with NJ or whatever…" Management has been given a chance and they continue to screw us (401k being held as a bargaining chip). Then partner with NJ(not going to happen, they are inhouse) or whatever.. Or whatever? This is my career and I would rather have a plan with the Local1108 than whatever.
 
Warlord,
I notice that you refuse to answer my request on another thread so I will try here. Methinks that you cannot provide proof of your accusations and thus you must be the one lying. Please provide the required information. The 1108 has backed up their claims with numerous letters with bountiful facts that back up their claims. It's time for you to show your evidence, unless of course you don't have any and thus you are lying.
 
Quite a few postings to my last post, so I’ll make a little statement and then respond to several of them.

First, I’m not RH, never have been, don’t look like him, etc. I realize your need to focus your hatred, vitriol, and bile on him or someone else in management, but I’m not him…just a simple line-pilot at Flex/DAC for many years that is fed up with your tactics and behavior. I would encourage your lawsuits and “outings” to prove you are liars.

I’ve seen from the beginning how the IBT has tried to infiltrate this company, and it’s disgusting. It uses character assasination, demonization, and the Big Lie as its main weapons against management. It uses faux-respect schemes @VUH and pretty sophisticated psychological tricks (i.e. hot buttons) to manipulate members to do it’s bidding. And it, apparently, works…there’s quite a few of you wanna-be’s, possibly a majority.

The character assasination started with Deanna W, one of our best and well-liked presidents, and hasn’t stopped since. You’ve made prediction after prediction on THIS BOARD about broke airplanes, work-rules violations, rolling rest, etc, etc NONE OF WHICH HAS COME TRUE since we were bought. The ONLY conclusion I come to is this…you LIED ABOUT THESE THINGS, AND YOU’LL LIE ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE IN ORDER TO TAKE CONTROL OF THIS COMPANY.

Architect-Why do you post here? if you come on here just to make observations or ponder your navel hair, there are probably better places to post than this.

GC-I’m not trying to silence you Dude….Post on. BTW, was DAC paying you a salary while you”were lining their pockets?” My career has been/continues to be with Flex/DAC, so don’t tell me how I should feel about the IBT.

CA1900-have you ever worked for an IBT-backed carrier? The IBT is unscrupolous, unethical in their business, and corrupt. They’ve been mob-affilliated since Bobby Kennedy went after the first Jimmy Hoffa in the 60’s. They’ve just been recommended to be put back under FEDERAL-SUPERVISION AGAIN. And there’s quite a few bulbs here that gladly GIVE them their dues.

These are my feelings I’ve developed over the past 2 years working under DAC. I’m betting the remainder of my career on the company, NOT the IBT. The IBT declared war
2 years ago, and I’ve chosen to do my share of the fight on this board. I’ll work for partnering with NJ or any other HONEST union, but NOT the IBT.
VOTE NO.
WL
 
WL " I’m betting the remainder of my career on the company, NOT the IBT." So am I! The company writes the check, the union fills in the amount.
 
993:
Yes, I’ll be glad when Dec.15th arrives..there’s a lot more things I’d rather do than spend an hour a day doing this….but this is necessary, as you guys won’t quit, and neither will I.

Not too lazy to post unique things on three threads…it’s just more efficient in getting the word out to VOTE NO.

Cap’n Crunch/minions under him orchestrates most of the IBT responses on Yammer…they are often cut and paste pieces right off the IBT press. There are several writers that do express their own feelings and that is good.

I get most of my information from postings on Yammer, fellow Flex pilots, and in the field talking to FO pilots. You project the aura of invincibility on this board, but I believe it will be a very tight race as more fence-sitters see the truth about the IBT. If your side is voted out, does that mean more than half the pilots are stupid, ignorant, and void of common sense to you? To me it will mean they have evaluated the IBT for what it is, rejected their bully-boy tactics, and chosen to work with management to bring back a culture and work attitude that will ensure our future success. I have no problem partnering with an HONEST UNION (the local is probably honest, but the ultimate leadership and part of YOUR DUES goes to the CORRUPT NATIONAL UNION), and it is from the NATIONAL UNION that your company-destroying tactics, demagoguery, and character assassination derive.

You(IBT’ers) write both here and other places that you want to work with the company…that is horse-sh*t. How can calling our boss Hitler and other despicable names create an atmosphere of togetherness? Your hubris not-withstanding, you write that “once the votes are tallied, it will be COMPLETELY up to management to decide what relationship they want to have with their employees going forward.” You and your IBT “brothers” have ALREADY established the relationship with your demonizing and demagoguery and manipulation…THIS ISN’T A GAME AND IT’S NOT GOING TO BE PRETTY.

fischman:

You “outgrew” the IBT because ya’ll eventually figured out what they were all about.

You wrote a very excellent post and deserve a reply. I agree with your first 2 points.

1). You will make more money…ALPA proved that long ago, and NJ more recently. But the ultimate arbiter is the marketplace and what the market will bear. A union puts pressure on management to get the best pay, and that is good.

2). I’ve never personally need a union, but agree with your points.

3). As far as this goes, I’ve never been pressured to fly when it is unsafe to go, neither at Flex or DAC. Both of these places emphasize safety and apparently realize the impact an accident would have on the company. I have NO problem telling pac’s or dispatch that we can’t go because of safety concerns. Never had any negative feedback either. Most folks appreciate good judgment.

So again, VOTE NO and get rid of this despicable culture-destroying IBT, IMPROVE your and your families lives next year with market wages, and enjoy the day.
WL
 
Funny you should say that because come to think of it KR destroyed the culture at RTA also didn't he? or at least that's what all of the RTA pilots say.
 
It’s getting late and been up a while but here’s a few comments for the various posts:

Many comments were made about the 2002 broken promises….that was 13 years ago….are you telling me that someone, anyone, would continue working for a company that corrupt for 13 years(today)….I dunno, maybe some of you would. I do know I only hear one side of the story from proven liars with a big agenda to fill, so your “stories” don’t hold much water for me.

“So you actually support having a union?” I’ve said on this board several times I’m not anti-union, just ANTI-IBT, and that there are companies that need unions, especially in past times. That point seems to go over your heads. Nowadays unions are rejected by all kinds of workers because workers have figured out how corrupt and inefficient most unions are. Japanese and European unions work with management and produce superior products. Would you rather drive a Chevy Impala or BMW…their about the same price. All I’m saying is the IBT is a poisonous, management-hating entity that will do and say anything to get a foot in the door. I see and hear this every day. They have torn my company apart (please save your platitudes for someone else) and encourage this “give it to the man” attitude that will cause the company to falter and eventually fail if they are voted in. It’s not surprising the NJ folks want them in our company…it would give their faltering operation a huge boost to tell potential clients the competition voted in the IBT.

And finally, the stupidest thing I’ve seen posted her yet…”this isn’t personal”. You’re right… it’s way beyond personal. Calling management stupid, ignorant, Hitler etc is way beyond personal.

If FO/FLEX pilots would like to gain some semblance of a culture and start making market wages and reap the benefits from working with management you need to VOTE NO. Management is not the enemy. This culture destroying misguided gang of hooligans is your true enemy. You have an opportunity to throw off their shakles and enjoy the fruits of your labor soon. Vote them in and your insured of years of below par everything and will find yourself in a race to the bottom. It’s your choice. VOTE NO!
WL
 
Warlord 19,
I'll repost until you answer.

WL,
We are still waiting for the copy of the transcripts that proves that you didn't say " that you thought it would be insulting to the dog if someone sent dog feces through the us mail to the IBT1108 Office". Please provide the transcript to prove you are not lying.

Please provide the names of companies in recent history that the 1108 represented that merged lists via DOH. Names of companies and dates please. You have been spouting off about how the SLI is going to be date of hire because you claim its how the 1108 has always done it. Please back up your claim with the companies and dates, otherwise it will just prove you have no credibility.
 
Uh Exagony, here is your answer once again, since you don't seem to get it. I'm not RH, don't look, write, or speak like him,etc. Thus, I cannot give you transcripts to or testify about a trial I have no knowledge about.

Do you under stand now? If you don't, I'm not sure who to refer you to for help.
WL
 
This is currently true. The writing style on the management account does not match RH's. He has posted under this screen name in the past, and may do so again; but he isn't currently doing so. The guy who used to post most often under this name, Steve G, was sacrificed by RH. His writing style was easy to spot.
 
Warlord19
Registered User

Posts: 183
Civ/Mil: Civilian
A/C Flown: CL30
Ratings: ATP
Total Time: 13,000
Hey Buckaroos, I’ve missed you almost as bad as you’ve missed mwah, it seems. Just having to work some long days is all….guess if we had a union we wouldn’t have to work, huh?

HonorStudentHS) deserves a reply to his uh, clever, post.
quote:
WL Wasn't it you that said in cross examination, that you thought it would be insulting to the dog if someone sent dog feces through the us mail to the IBT1108 Office. You are a disgusting person and only a sick mind would think of such a thing. Do you teach the Boys you lead in the scouts to behave in that manner? Disgusting!
quote

HS apparently is a pretty dim bulb, for he starts with telling a LIE, then building his conclusions on top of them. He is apparently lazy, for he COULD do a quick search and discover what was ACTUALLY said. Not the IBT way, is it?

Ummm Warlord in a previous post on another thread you claimed " He is apparently lazy, for he COULD do a quick search and discover what was ACTUALLY said". I asked you for proof and you have been utterly unable to provide said proof. Methinks you are lying once again. Show proof otherwise as you claim a quick search could prove what you or RH, when he is the WL19 poster of the day, said and didn't say in the trial. I am still awaiting with baited breath for you to provide proof of any recent 1108 mergers that went by date of hire as you, or when RH has the WL19 keyboard duty, claim. You have made plentiful accusations but offer not an iota of proof to back up your statements. 1108 provides proof in the letters sent out.
 
My guess is when RH isn't manning the WL19 poster position it is none other than KR or perhaps JW maybe DF. Whomever it doesn't matter because on December 15th the Flight Options and Flexjet pilots will both be members of the same Union. The IBT 1108. Don't make the same mistake the RTA PILOTS MADE by giving this management a chance!
Say Yes and VOTE YES for the IBT1108!!!!
 
Uh children, I urge you to file a lawsuit charging management at Flexjet of using my account(WL) to further their(managements) position....that is a crime and NJ management got in trouble for doing it. You have the right and OBLIGATION to file a suite if you think that is what is going on. So let's put your money where your mouths are and get a lawsuit going....i'm sure your masters will back you 100%.
WL
 
Congratulations on becoming a Teamster! Management dweebs learn quick that they aren't ALL POWERFUL warlords. Its nice watching them learn to.
 
warlord19 said:
Uh children, I urge you to file a lawsuit charging management at Flexjet of using my account(WL) to further their(managements) position....that is a crime and NJ management got in trouble for doing it. You have the right and OBLIGATION to file a suite if you think that is what is going on. So let's put your money where your mouths are and get a lawsuit going....i'm sure your masters will back you 100%.
WL
Click to expand...

The law suit(e) can wait. The next pressing thing is what to do now that you and Denise Flower-ian can't figure out what to do about the "unhappy" transfer pilots at Flex that want to return to Options.
 
I have a few comments I made in red.

warlord19 said:
fischman:

You ?outgrew? the IBT because ya?ll eventually figured out what they were all about.

You wrote a very excellent post and deserve a reply. I agree with your first 2 points.

1). You will make more money?ALPA proved that long ago, and NJ more recently. But the ultimate arbiter is the marketplace and what the market will bear. A union puts pressure on management to get the best pay, and that is good. Not correct. The market will pay a non-union pilot market prices. A union pilot gets paid what the company can afford and is collectively negotiated. In other words, union pilots are paid above market wages. For example, if NJ's TA passes, we will have Phenom pilots at over $200k. Show me a non-union shop ANYWHERE that will pay a Phenom pilot that.

2). I?ve never personally need a union, but agree with your points. That's because you're management.

3). As far as this goes, I?ve never been pressured to fly when it is unsafe to go, neither at Flex or DAC. Both of these places emphasize safety and apparently realize the impact an accident would have on the company. I have NO problem telling pac?s or dispatch that we can?t go because of safety concerns. Never had any negative feedback either. Most folks appreciate good judgment.

So again, VOTE NO and get rid of this despicable culture-destroying IBT , IMPROVE your and your families lives next year with market wages, and enjoy the day. How do you expect them to improve their lives without a union? Are you, out of the generosity of your heart, going to give them better and fair work rules, raises, benefits, and upgrades in seniority order? I don't think so. The ONLY way to guarantee that is to vote in a union and put boots to pavement.

Again. These are YOUR pilots. Why do you think so terribly of them? Like I stated earlier, the IBT has very little to do with your local. It is the LOCAL ELECTED LEADERS and VOLUNTEERS that run the union. The union isn't the IBT. The union is YOUR PILOTS. So I ask you again, why do you speak so terribly about your crews? Knowing you are management and how little you think of your own people would be enough for me to vote yes.
Click to expand...

Let's be clear: YOU DO NOT SPEAK FOR ME. We outgrew the IBT means exactly that. We were sending 25% of our dues to IBT national and realized we had enough dues income with 2700 pilots that we didn't require IBT's support. Don't put words into my mouth to add spin to your argument.

As far as #3 goes: Good for you. I'm in a union and have had to call stewards on multiple occasions to protect myself when I set the parking brake. If not for the union I would have been disciplined or fired for doing what I thought was safe and right. As a matter of fact, Santulli would use the union as a selling point to the passengers because we knew that we would have union representation and felt secure to ALWAYS take the safest course of action. THAT is the best reason to vote in a union. That, and, you'll get more money.
 
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realityman: You funny guy. I didn’t know you had a tractor-trailer truck tooting it’s horn and everything at one of your recent pickets. What a great idea. Rumour has it we got 27 calls from NJ owners the next day wanting to change providers…guess they didn’t appreciate the toots as much as you, but I would encourage you to continue this practice.

GC: I don’t so much defend management behavior as much as explain why the anachronistic, belligerent, archaic, uncivil, etc IBT is such a POS, that it has torn our culture apart at Flex, and will cause our company huge grief if it comes on property.. I am pro-business and wish to work with management as opposed to demonizing them, calling them Hitlers, and other such things the IBT lemmings do most every day.

fischman: You might want to check the pay of the Lear45 drivers at Wal-Mart…rumor has it they are not unionized.
Also, I would ask you this. Do you simply believe that all line-pilots think alike and that 100% of them think a union is mandatory? I can attest there are a whole bunch who hate and detest this IBT POS as much as I do, hopefully a majority. You’re simple-minded if you think other-wise.


If there are any non-voters left, I would urge you to vote soon. Not doing so is irresponsible.

At Flex, we recently had our most private data breached by “someone” who then gave it to NJASAP, who then did a mass propaganda mailing to Flex pilots. It is this kind of IBT-inspired illegal and egregous behavior you can expect IF the IBT infests Flex.

Anyone with eyes and basic common sense can figure out why NJASAP wants us to vote in the IBT…it is such a huge drag on any company they infest, and would give our most direct competitors, NJ, a huge selling point when trying to sell shares.

So, Be SMART! You have a chance to vote yourself all the benefits and equal wages Flex now enjoys. Do it for your family and yourself.

VOTE NO!!!
WL
 
warlord19 said:
fischman: You might want to check the pay of the Lear45 drivers at Wal-Mart?rumor has it they are not unionized.
Also, I would ask you this. Do you simply believe that all line-pilots think alike and that 100% of them think a union is mandatory? I can attest there are a whole bunch who hate and detest this IBT POS as much as I do, hopefully a majority. You?re simple-minded if you think other-wise.
Click to expand...
You may want to check the work rules at Wal-Mart! You never answered my questions. Typical of union busting management types.

$50 says you won't answer them.
 
Ha! All they needed was a name list then they could search Faa.gov to their hearts content to find out the addresses! Again more reteric to try to discredit an organization that has actually helped the FO side by obtaining a GOOD first contract!!!!! The only person who has been caught lying to the Flex pilots is KR! Perhaps you want to work for him without a contract but about 90 percent of the FO pilots DO NOT!!! You do have the ten percent who will step on their coworkers back to get ahead! Again who was it that said there will be no changes? Who fired DW? You say that the Teamsters demonized her? The Teamsters did not have to do ANYTHING except wait for K to show his true colors! You can say all you want but I will keep pointing out actual provable facts. History not conjecture or hyperbole! We received on average about 36 percent raise over 5 years during what some are calling the worst economic downturn in history! Facts! So would I rather give some money to an organization that has had some personnel with issues in the past versus a person who actually has fired 8 people completely illegally and who has made tons of promises and broken them who has reneged on your contract that he wrote? To put it into current vernacular, You Betcha!!!!!!
 
WL"At Flex, we recently had our most private data breached by “someone” .
It's one big conspiracy and you exposed it! Now you can put on your foil hat and go back to your padded room.
 

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