Flex/Flops

[Pervis]

Single carrier. Great news for all.

 

[brokeflyer]

maybe, unless they vote down the union. then you're all F*#&&#D

 

[Club ORD FO]

Single carrier. Great news for all.

Great news for options. For flex.... Meh

 

[imacdog]

Oh if you didn't see the potential for whipsaw as separate carriers then I don't know what to tell ya.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Vote predictions?

 

[Club ORD FO]

there is way more upside in this for options.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

^ After NJ attains their CBA, I think you'll see the upside for Flex.

 

[Club ORD FO]

I'm not saying a contract or a union is necessarily a good or bad thing, I'm saying merging the pilots groups does little for flex. Their airplanes and play scales are not of interest to the average flex pilot. Flex pilots arguable have more to risk/lose. It means fewer upgrades into flex planes for flex first officers. correct?

 

[Brit]

Vote predictions?

Pain....

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

I'm not saying a contract or a union is necessarily a good or bad thing, I'm saying merging the pilots groups does little for flex. Their airplanes and play scales are not of interest to the average flex pilot. Flex pilots arguable have more to risk/lose. It means fewer upgrades into flex planes for flex first officers. correct?

Maybe Club. The Flex pilots have a lot to lose as far as pay is concerned but they haven't lived under Lord Micromanager himself. The Flex and the Options pilots are about the same size, so they should have equal input as to the future of our joint pilot group in the new Joint CBA. I'm hoping for a win for all pilots.

 

[flexible]

I'm not saying a contract or a union is necessarily a good or bad thing, I'm saying merging the pilots groups does little for flex. Their airplanes and play scales are not of interest to the average flex pilot. Flex pilots arguable have more to risk/lose. It means fewer upgrades into flex planes for flex first officers. correct?

I'm not going to lie, I hate the idea of a union but fact all screwed if the union pass but barely. Worse than yes Union no Union is weak Union.

A lot to think about today. Despite you correct downside for flex we will lose everything with only a are margin. What to do what to do.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

It means fewer upgrades into flex planes for flex first officers. correct?

After the vote & the SLI, there will be a fence agreement & that's the only way to keep upgrade opportunities on a level field.

Aside from everything else a CBA does, it establishes seniority & seniority is the only fair means of advancement for the masses. This has been tried and proven for decades not only at the airlines, but at thousands of workplaces.

Why should you or I have to prostrate ourselves and interview for a job we're already doing, one we've done for thirteen or seventeen years with this company? Maybe for a management job or for a job with an entirely different set of skills, but a pilot job? What, we don't know the job yet? Having to interview for a job flying Gulfstreams? Screw that! I want to know that when it's my turn, I can step up and learn that aircraft or I can decline the offer.

I'd be genuinely surprised if the Flex Challenger captains aren't secretly pissed seeing those potentially higher paying jobs going to Uncle's suck-ups. It should matter to all Flex pilots that only a binding contract offers a seniority system for advancement.

If American or United introduced the A380 & started throwing junior pilots into the seats, you know those airlines would be shut down before the first one took flight. Why are we so docile?

 

[el raton]

I'm not going to lie, I hate the idea of a union but fact all screwed if the union pass but barely. Worse than yes Union no Union is weak Union.

A lot to think about today. Despite you correct downside for flex we will lose everything with only a are margin. What to do what to do.

?????

 

[doh]

Let me take a stab at the translation.
I'm not going lie, I hate the idea of a union. But it's a fact that we are all screwed if the union vote passes with a very low margin. 50%+1 would show such a weak hand to the company that we would never negotiate a decent contract. Worse than a no vote is a weak yes vote.
It is true that we Flexjet pilots have more to lose than the Options pilots, however, we lose everything with a weak yes vote. We have a lot to think about today...what to do? what to do?
I believe that is a pretty fair translation.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Doh,

I think you're pretty good at translating genuine pilot gibberish....

 

[dime line]

I'm not going to lie, I hate the idea of a union but fact all screwed if the union pass but barely. Worse than yes Union no Union is weak Union.

A lot to think about today. Despite you correct downside for flex we will lose everything with only a are margin. What to do what to do.

Ill take a weak union over a no union at One Sky any day

 

[dime line]

Let me take a stab at the translation.
I'm not going lie, I hate the idea of a union. But it's a fact that we are all screwed if the union vote passes with a very low margin. 50%+1 would show such a weak hand to the company that we would never negotiate a decent contract. Worse than a no vote is a weak yes vote.
It is true that we Flexjet pilots have more to lose than the Options pilots, however, we lose everything with a weak yes vote. We have a lot to think about today...what to do? what to do?
I believe that is a pretty fair translation.

No a "no" vote will be a pay cut for FLEX, just look at how Ricci values the pay of the G and Global guys, you have Lear guys making equal to that pay, and Ricci will not have that. (Its in his book)

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Ill take a weak union over a no union at One Sky any day

I agree dime. Without a union, the QOL will be like the old days with the "blame the pilot first attitude". A weak union will mean a weak contract. There is always going to be the supporters that do most of the heavy lifting. The next group has to have the choice put right in front of them to "maybe" do something. The last group is the one where they are behind on their distemper shots. They are the ones that cannot reason well and go into the defense mode immediately. They think that they, along with their keepers, have the only ideas on how to make this company great
again.

 

[dime line]

I agree dime. Without a union, the QOL will be like the old days with the "blame the pilot first attitude". A weak union will mean a weak contract. There is always going to be the supporters that do most of the heavy lifting. The next group has to have the choice put right in front of them to "maybe" do something. The last group is the one where they are behind on their distemper shots. They are the ones that cannot reason well and go into the defense mode immediately. They think that they, along with their keepers, have the only ideas on how to make this company great
again.

in the old days hu........Today, yesterday, its always been "Blame the pilot first" at least today when they blame us we have the union rep there to help, I'll take 50+1 just to keep that help in place for the kangaroo court that does take place up in CGF.
Also after 9 months to get a contract, if it goes to arbitration, I doubt the arbitrator will ask what percentage the vote passed in order to settle the contract, he will just look at industry standard pay

 

[Praetorian]

in the old days hu........Today, yesterday, its always been "Blame the pilot first" at least today when they blame us we have the union rep there to help, I'll take 50+1 just to keep that help in place for the kangaroo court that does take place up in CGF.
Also after 9 months to get a contract, if it goes to arbitration, I doubt the arbitrator will ask what percentage the vote passed in order to settle the contract, he will just look at industry standard pay

It doesn't work that way dude. We need a landslide. Let's make it happen.