Flex/Flops

[dime line]

I'm not going to lie, I hate the idea of a union but fact all screwed if the union pass but barely. Worse than yes Union no Union is weak Union.

A lot to think about today. Despite you correct downside for flex we will lose everything with only a are margin. What to do what to do.

Ill take a weak union over a no union at One Sky any day

 

[dime line]

Let me take a stab at the translation.
I'm not going lie, I hate the idea of a union. But it's a fact that we are all screwed if the union vote passes with a very low margin. 50%+1 would show such a weak hand to the company that we would never negotiate a decent contract. Worse than a no vote is a weak yes vote.
It is true that we Flexjet pilots have more to lose than the Options pilots, however, we lose everything with a weak yes vote. We have a lot to think about today...what to do? what to do?
I believe that is a pretty fair translation.

No a "no" vote will be a pay cut for FLEX, just look at how Ricci values the pay of the G and Global guys, you have Lear guys making equal to that pay, and Ricci will not have that. (Its in his book)

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Ill take a weak union over a no union at One Sky any day

I agree dime. Without a union, the QOL will be like the old days with the "blame the pilot first attitude". A weak union will mean a weak contract. There is always going to be the supporters that do most of the heavy lifting. The next group has to have the choice put right in front of them to "maybe" do something. The last group is the one where they are behind on their distemper shots. They are the ones that cannot reason well and go into the defense mode immediately. They think that they, along with their keepers, have the only ideas on how to make this company great
again.

 

[dime line]

I agree dime. Without a union, the QOL will be like the old days with the "blame the pilot first attitude". A weak union will mean a weak contract. There is always going to be the supporters that do most of the heavy lifting. The next group has to have the choice put right in front of them to "maybe" do something. The last group is the one where they are behind on their distemper shots. They are the ones that cannot reason well and go into the defense mode immediately. They think that they, along with their keepers, have the only ideas on how to make this company great
again.

in the old days hu........Today, yesterday, its always been "Blame the pilot first" at least today when they blame us we have the union rep there to help, I'll take 50+1 just to keep that help in place for the kangaroo court that does take place up in CGF.
Also after 9 months to get a contract, if it goes to arbitration, I doubt the arbitrator will ask what percentage the vote passed in order to settle the contract, he will just look at industry standard pay

 

[Praetorian]

in the old days hu........Today, yesterday, its always been "Blame the pilot first" at least today when they blame us we have the union rep there to help, I'll take 50+1 just to keep that help in place for the kangaroo court that does take place up in CGF.
Also after 9 months to get a contract, if it goes to arbitration, I doubt the arbitrator will ask what percentage the vote passed in order to settle the contract, he will just look at industry standard pay

It doesn't work that way dude. We need a landslide. Let's make it happen.

 

[doh]

No a "no" vote will be a pay cut for FLEX, just look at how Ricci values the pay of the G and Global guys, you have Lear guys making equal to that pay, and Ricci will not have that. (Its in his book)

Don't shoot the translator! I don't agree with the op, but I did accurately translate. Go after the actual op. Jeeesh!

 

[Honorstudent]

There is but one certainty, if the Union Vote were to fail the Flex pilots have yet to see there darkest days, schedule, pay, benefits, work rules, and quality of life in general would change for most of the Flex and Options pilots but a few FOK,s or RED Label or SFO or whatever you would like to call them, and yes that too is in his book! You see during the RTA and Flight Options merger the RTA pilots were told one set of lies and the Flight Options Pilots were told a different set of lies, The only pilots that made out were SFO,S and many flew broke and tired and would sell there first born just to kiss the ring of Lord Farquad. They thought they were special when in reality they were just dangerous!

 

[cougar12]

There is but one certainty, if the Union Vote were to fail the Flex pilots have yet to see there darkest days, schedule, pay, benefits, work rules, and quality of life in general would change for most of the Flex and Options pilots but a few FOK,s or RED Label or SFO or whatever you would like to call them, and yes that too is in his book! You see during the RTA and Flight Options merger the RTA pilots were told one set of lies and the Flight Options Pilots were told a different set of lies, The only pilots that made out were SFO,S and many flew broke and tired and would sell there first born just to kiss the ring of Lord Farquad. They thought they were special when in reality they were just dangerous!

Don't forget during those dark days every time a Program Manager(Fleet Manager) changed if He /she didn't like someone they were sent packing! Can you imagine if Chicken Little became a fleet manager and no Union contract?? OH Sh** !
Can I get extra ballots?

 

[Honorstudent]

Praetorian is right you guys need a landslide to give your negotiating comittee the power it needs to get an industry leading contract, Uncle K says he wants to give Netjets a run for there money and as was claimed be Sylvestro it's a 2 horse race, time to see if they are willing to pay for it and you guys will only be able to do it with a landslide victory, there is power in numbers!!

 

[Bjtdrvr]

edited yammer post!

So great news. We have been deemed a single carrier operation by the NMB. GREAT. Now we are one step closer to voting in the teamsters.

I would like to offer my condolences to the FJ FOK'ers for being dropped from their "Mouthpiece for the union-busting law firm in Cleveland." After all these months of hard work you have put in to bring down the union to Flexjet and as soon as we are determined a single system it is now the pilots that make up the 1108 from BOTH FltOps AND Flextaking over.

My deepest concern to the flexjet crew members for now you see that you have a voice at the table from here on out. If you let this happen, if you don't vote the union in you will never have a voice. Just ask the flight option pilots that did not transfer over, ask the flight option pilots that were asked to do the question video with Kenn They were bombarded by the fltoption pilots and the teamsters telling them they don't speak for the pilot group the union, made up exclusively of elected, or appointed PILOTS, speaks for us. Is that what you really want guys. Th is letter shows you that the flight option union executive board and the FJPOC, plus soonthe FJ Leadership Council is now speaking to and for you. If you vote the union out management will run, no own you.

This is the first step of flexjet gaining everything. I may believe in what the Fj-poc was doing or has done to this point but at least you had flexjet pilots doing it just as OneSky pilots (Flex and FltOps) are now doing it. Not anymore crew members. I know the fj-poc is going to say they sent out a letter to read from the executive coucil. I know you the fj-poc spoke for flexjet crews. You said that the union does speak for you. But yet you just support OUR union. FOK'ers Sold flexjet crewmembers out!! That letter sure seemed very confident and professional as all your other letters. It sounded and looked like a letter of what the **** did they try to do to my fellow crew members and company.

Flexjet crew members. We can dig ourselves out of this pit. Give OUR UNION a chance. Give it some time. VOTE the teamsters in, don't allow this company and our well being to be destroyed. Keep your voi ce. VOTE YES! Bring a STRONG voice to the table!

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Welcome bjtdrvr. I see its your first post. More pilots need to come out of the shadows and stand up for what is rightfully yours. Lord Farquaad has no respect for you as an individual. We need to band together if we want an industry leading contract. We need to show more than %50+1 to show we are serious. VOTE YES!

 

[Praetorian]

I'm not saying a contract or a union is necessarily a good or bad thing, I'm saying merging the pilots groups does little for flex. Their airplanes and play scales are not of interest to the average flex pilot. Flex pilots arguable have more to risk/lose. It means fewer upgrades into flex planes for flex first officers. correct?

Club,

It's so frustrating, after all this time, to continue to read this types of posts. Now that Flex/Options has been declared a single carrier the merger of the pilot groups is happening, like it or not. What's important to decide is how we're going to handle it. How we manage the situation.

Option one: Vote out the union and allow KR and company to decide for us how the integration will occur. In this scenario, I think we can count on more of the same, FOK's taking most of the seats in the large aircraft, without any regard for seniority. Terminations for minor infractions and perceived slights to fragile management egos. A seniority list integration that we the pilots have absolutely no control over. Life under the absolute and dictatorial control of a management team, that left unchallenged, has displayed over and over their willingness to rule with an iron fist.

Option two: Vote in the union and take control of our collective futures through the collective bargaining process. A seniority list integration process determined by a committee made up of Flexjet and Flight Options pilots who will have to answer to us not management. A CBA that we negotiate for the combined pilot group that will continue to give the Flight Options pilots and will provide the Flexjet pilots with job protections, work rules, system board, arbitration and grievance procedures. A CBA that is enforceable, unlike that fake employment agreement the Flexjet pilots currently work under. Most of all, the dignity that comes from being able to say NO when management crosses over the line while we are at work, without fear of retribution.

Look man, you keep talking about what you "have" to loose. The fact is you currently "have" nothing. Nothing that management can't take away from you tomorrow with an email.

Did you "have" the stip? That was covered in your employment agreement, wasn't it? What about the no-call list, did you "have" that? Now they gave you a rolling duty day. Wait till peak travel.

These things have all happened during a period of time when KR was constrained by his desire to get the FX pilot's vote against the union. Leading up to an election he's known was coming for two years now. Can you imagine what he will do to what you think you "have" if that dynamic changes?

 

[ghostrider64]

Word about integration.

Make it straight seniority, DOH and move on. Let everyone stay where they are, but any changes should be bid and awarded by seniority. Anything else and you'll be arguing about it for decades.

 

[el raton]

Word about integration.

Make it straight seniority, DOH and move on. Let everyone stay where they are, but any changes should be bid and awarded by seniority. Anything else and you'll be arguing about it for decades.

DOH? That's a staple job.

 

[Dirty Squirrel]

Word about integration.

Make it straight seniority, DOH and move on. Let everyone stay where they are, but any changes should be bid and awarded by seniority. Anything else and you'll be arguing about it for decades.

You must be a Flight Options pilot.