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I guess no doesn't mean no for Delta

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SWA Bubba, you say that the city of Dallas could have kicked out Southwest at any time. This is Dallas Love's website: http://www.dallas-lovefield.com/love-notes-chronology-of-events.html

Note:
1972
The Regional Airport Board and the Cities of Dallas and Fort Worth sue Southwest Airlines over their decision to remain at Love Field.

1973
Love Field enplanements peak at 6,668,398. The court grants Southwest Airlines the right to remain and offer intrastate air service at Love Field.





I'll rephrase: The city of Dallas wanted Love field closed to commercial aircraft. I love the semantics play you're using. Did they want to keep it open for private aircraft? I'd have to read more about it, but it's obvious that no one except Southwest wanted commercial aviation at Love field.
The City of Dallas did in fact want Love Field closed to commercial traffic because they had multiple bonds ordinances funding DFW and multiple agreements with other airlines to move their operations out of Love to DFW. The problem however was that the City of Dallas had no authority to do so. In fact it was illegal for Dallas to preclude SWA from using Love field.

Dallas Love Field was and is subject to the same regulations and stipulations put forth by the Federal government when they provide the major funding to build these very expensive facilities. It was found that Dallas had zero authority to oust SWA from Love Field.


546 F.2d 84
SOUTHWEST AIRLINES COMPANY, Plaintiff-Appellee,
v.
TEXAS INTERNATIONAL AIRLINES, INC., et al., Defendants-Appellants,
v.
TEXAS AERONAUTICS COMMISSION, Intervenor-Appellee.
No. 75-2539.
United States Court of Appeals,
Fifth Circuit.

Southwest Airlines Co. has returned to the federal courts for the second time in two years to preserve a 1973 judgment in a federal district court. The recurring litigation concerns Southwest's right to continue its air passenger services at Love Field in Dallas, Texas, and to avoid a forced move to the new Dallas-Fort Worth Regional Airport. The district court granted Southwest a preliminary injunction against relitigation in state court of the issues decided in 1973.
We affirm.

I. FACTS

The cities and the Airport Board then filed the first federal court suit (Southwest I ), requesting a declaratory judgment of their right to exclude Southwest from Love Field. Southwest counterclaimed for a declaratory judgment of its right to remain at the field and for an injunction to enforce that right. The TAC intervened as a party-defendant and adopted Southwest's position. On both federal and state law grounds, the district court declared that the cities and the Board could "not lawfully exclude the defendant, Southwest Airlines Co., from the use of Love Field, Dallas, Texas, and its airport facilities so long as Love Field remains open as an airport."

In 1970 eight CAB-certified air lines, appellants in this case, executed letter agreements with the Dallas/Fort Worth Regional Airport Board agreeing to "move all of (their) certified Air Carrier Services serving the Dallas-Fort Worth area to the (new) airport . . . to the extent required under the terms of the 1968 Regional Airport Concurrent Bond Ordinance."

Southwest Airlines began its intrastate commercial air service from Love Field in 1971 under a certificate issued by the Texas Aeronautics Commission (TAC). The certificate authorized service from any airport in the area.

Dallas responded to the district court's judgment by passing a criminal ordinance that levied a two-hundred-dollar fine for each takeoff or landing at Love Field by an airplane of a certified airline. Southwest then brought another suit in federal court (Southwest II ) to enjoin enforcement of that ordinance.

After Southwest moved for summary judgment, however, the district court severed the ordinance dispute from the case and enjoined Dallas from enforcing the ordinance against either Southwest or Braniff.

The federal district court has preliminarily enjoined this "frontal attack", thereby precluding the CAB airlines, the cities, and the airport board: from relitigating in state court . . . or in any other court action the validity, effect or enforceability of the 1968 Regional Airport Concurrent Bond Ordinance of the Cities of Dallas and Fort Worth insofar as it may affect the right of plaintiff Southwest Airlines Co. to the continued use of and access to Love Field, so long as Love Field remains open. . . .

In Southwest I, however, the federal courts faced an issue of Texas law with a clear answer. The issue concerned the relative authority of the TAC and the City of Dallas to control access to Love Field, and Judge Gee responded: It has a simple answer. In a recent decision, the Texas Supreme Court had occasion to consider the powers of the Texas Aeronautics Commission. . . .
"The decision as to where the public interest lies and what air service is best for Texas must be made by the Texas Aeronautics Commission." . . .

. . . Indeed, to hold that a city could deny the use of public facilities to an airline certificated to it by the Texas Aeronautics Commission would cripple, if not destroy, the Commission's powers to control intrastate routes.

As both the district and circuit opinions explain, to rule otherwise would disregard the plain language of the Texas Constitution, the Texas Municipal Airports Act, the Texas Aeronautics Act, and statutes regulating home rule cities, all of which support TAC authority over the controversy. Because the state law is so clear, the federal courts did not violate any principles of federalism by proceeding to judgment without abstention in Southwest I.

In their attempt to apply the 1968 Bond Ordinance to Southwest, the CAB airlines assume the role of private attorneys-general. In effect, they would enforce the ordinance's phase-out provision by excluding Southwest from Love Field. The City of Dallas has already failed in its attempt to effect such an exclusion. We hold that the carriers should be bound by that failure.

CONCLUSION This is the eighth time in three years that a federal court has refused to support the eviction of Southwest Airlines from Love Field. Precisely worded holdings and deference to state authorities by the federal judiciary have only generated more suits, appeals, and petitions for rehearings. Once again, we repeat, Southwest Airlines Co. has a federally declared right to the continued use of and access to Love Field, so long as Love Field remains open. The narrowly drawn preliminary injunction of the district court correctly protects that right. It does so without violating principles of federalism, the federal law of res judicata, or the dictates of due process.

The judgment of the district court is
AFFIRMED.


The City of Dallas does not get to make it's own laws, they are bound by the same legalities as everyone else. Time and time again SWA has been found to be on the right side of the law. If the City of Dallas dropped the ball in doing their due diligence as to what authorities they had to enforce an evacuation of Love Field, that is no ones fault but their own. Your insinuation that SWA did some underhanded dirty deeds to remain at Love is completely unfounded. Dallas had no legal authority to exclude anyone from the extensively federally funded airport. This has been litigated and re-litigated all with the same results.
 
It took me 3 (wasted) minutes of my life to find out why DAL's gate limited. NOISE.
Seriously, if you guys are going to sit here and say, 'build more gates', at least find out why the freaking restriction was put in place. The airport's in the middle of a residential area, similar to SNA and every other noise sensitive airport.

Bullsh1t. Complete and utter bullsh1t.

The reason the number of gates is limited is because American and DFW wanted it that way. Period. You really think American gives a rat's a$$ about noise levels near an airport that they don't fly to? If you really think that's the reason, you have descended into the Flop levels of pure Southwest spite.

Yes, residents on the east side of the airport are concerned about noise, just like they do at every airport in the country. Every airport in the country anywhere near people's homes garners complaints. All of them. The answers to those concerns are to change local procedures, or implement timing restrictions. Hell, LGA is just as close to people's homes, and has ten times the traffic as DAL. And your noise champion, SNA, which is friggin' world famous for their stupid, but extremely rich and extremely noise-sensitive neighbors, has elaborate procedures and rigidly enforced curfews to handle it. One thing they don't do, however, is limit number of flights or gates. No airport that I'm aware of does that. In fact just a few years ago, SNA finished a huge upgrade in their terminal, increasing the number of gates (and number of flights) by 60%. Same stupid noise procedures, though.

In DAL's particular case, the noise sensitive procedures consist of using the west runway (essentially overflying industrial areas) between 2100 and 0600 local. This is similar to other airports with one side near residential areas.

And you really think your posts aren't motivated by anit-SWA rhetoric? You're not as bad as Flop, but you seem to be getting there.

Bubba
 
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Andy,

Another quick question.

Please explain to me how anyone can build additional gates in DCA or LGA? You can't there is no room and both are slot limited.

As for your noise limit that is just a joke right? What airport in the country limits their gates because of noise...Let me help you NONE.

Once again you usually are informed on most subjects but on this one you seem to be so uninformed it almost borders on irrational.

I'm not entirely sure but I don't think Delta was even part of the moving from Love to DFW.

As for the 56 seats I am well aware of it and the airline named Legend that tried to make it work but that has nothing to do with the question I asked. Delta has know the Wright amendment was ending for 8 years why is it only now after SWA put up all the capital both political and monetary to get rid of the Wright amendment do they think they can come in and abrigate a signed contract?
 
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I hope you guys realize you al all a little correct and a little wrong .


The airline CEOs all talk to each other on a weekly / monthly timeline . They all have several things in common . Some of them are profits and a dislike for the government sticking there hand into everything .


All this wanting gates at Love Field ,is a way to get more gates built and getting restrictions lifted . Anyone who cannot see this is a fool .


Bubba sees this and I think Flop does also ,but is in denial .
 
Build more gates, or stop complaining. This gets about as much sympathy as the passengers that make rude comments getting off flights in White Plains after we have to wait 45 minutes for a gate. I tell them they are free to tell the county to build a bigger terminal or fly out of New York or Newburgh.
 
Andy,

Another quick question.

Please explain to me how anyone can build additional gates in DCA or LGA? You can't there is no room and both are slot limited.

As for your noise limit that is just a joke right? What airport in the country limits their gates because of noise...Let me help you NONE.

Once again you usually are informed on most subjects but on this one you seem to be so uninformed it almost borders on irrational.

I'm not entirely sure but I don't think Delta was even part of the moving from Love to DFW.

As for the 56 seats I am well aware of it and the airline named Legend that tried to make it work but that has nothing to do with the question I asked. Delta has know the Wright amendment was ending for 8 years why is it only now after SWA put up all the capital both political and monetary to get rid of the Wright amendment do they think they can come in and abrigate a signed contract?

HPN (White Plains) does for sure. I believe there are a few others as well. There are several with cerfews as well.
 
Don't sweat the gates, SWAPA has a strike committee, but they can't actually risk a strike. That includes the other majors.
 
HPN (White Plains) does for sure. I believe there are a few others as well. There are several with cerfews as well.
Some municipalities have legislated restrictions based on noise, Dallas Love is not one of them. Noise abatement procedures at Love are voluntary.
 
Your insinuation that SWA did some underhanded dirty deeds to remain at Love is completely unfounded.

No insinuation on my part. Straight up - Herb pulled an underhanded dirty trick to stay at Love field. Or are you trying to tell me that Herb didn't know that all commercial aviation was supposed to move to DFW once it opened?

It was a brilliant move on Herb's part. Yes. Ethical? No.

Andy,

Another quick question.

Please explain to me how anyone can build additional gates in DCA or LGA? You can't there is no room and both are slot limited.

Fire up the google machine. DCA's adding additional gates and building a new concourse to the north of the C concourse.

LGA's pretty easy. There's a large area to the north of the Delta Shuttle terminal used for employee parking. You could easily drop a new terminal there. Beyond that, there's eminent domain to Astoria Blvd (or even further if desired) or you could fill in some of the Hudson for additional land area. Again, I did say that it was expensive, but not impossible.

As for your noise limit that is just a joke right? What airport in the country limits their gates because of noise...Let me help you NONE.

http://www.dallas-lovefield.com/pdf/WrightImpactReport.pdf

HPN (White Plains) does for sure. I believe there are a few others as well. There are several with cerfews as well.

That doesn't fit into the meme here. Cowboys prefer fact free conversations.


SWA Bubba, you're way too wound up about this to even try to discuss anything with you rationally. Calm down and stop throwing a tantrum like a four year old.


One more time: I don't give a crap about Love field. As such, I haven't put much time into researching the subject. But for as much you guys whine about GL, at least he does some research and has an understanding of most subjects he discusses here.
 

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