Call to Action... Our futures

[tailhookah]

We all need to be very afraid over the advance of the middle eastern airlines into our turf, using our own tax payer dollars to buy cheaper Boeing airplanes than are available to US companies. We also need to continue to deny NAI by calling our congress and to engage in the ALPA calls to action for their denial into our skies.

There are also certain non legacy airlines that are giving these companies (and NAI if allowed to certify) full domestic feed in the US. While you think that's great for your growth, it'll bite you in the a$$ in the end. As these ME airlines continue more and more market penetration, more and more people will fly on them, w/ your feed BTW, until they get enough clout on capital hill to drop the cabotage and foreign ownership rules... when that happens it'll be over for all of us.

The time to act is now... join ALPA PAC and stay engaged to your congress. Call, email or write your reps and engage.

 

[DUBLINFLYER]

Don't forget about Ryan Air, they were quoted in the Irish newspaper yesterday that they were planning service to 15 US destinations in the next few years if they get wide body aircraft
"THIE IRISH ARE COMING THE IRISH ARE COMING"
Happy St. Pats Day to all

 

[tailhookah]

Cut and pasted from the "Partnership for Open & Fair Skies". "A level playing field for us all".

###############################################



Restoring Open Skies: The Need to Address Subsidized Competition from State-Owned Airlines in Qatar and the UAE is a 55-page white paper commissioned by American Airlines, Delta Air Lines and United Airlines and presented to the U.S. government.

The document proves that multi-billion dollar subsidies are provided by the governments of Qatar and the United Arab Emirates to Qatar Airways, Etihad Airways and Emirates Airline in violation of Open Skies policy. Evidence gathered during a global, two-year investigation ? including newly obtained financial statements and other records ? shows that those three state-owned carriers have received $42 billion in quantifiable subsidies and other unfair benefits from their respective governments in the last decade alone, including:

Qatar Airways
$8.4 billion in government ?loans? and ?shareholder advances? with no repayment obligation $6.8 billion in subsidies from government loan guarantees

Etihad Airways
$6.6 billion in government ?loans? with no repayment obligation $6.3 billion in government capital injections $3.5 billion in additional undisclosed government funding in 2014

Emirates
Unquantified subsidies from purchases of more than $11 billion in goods and services from other government-owned companies at not-at-arm?s-length prices

These massive subsidies have enabled Qatar, Etihad and Emirates to rapidly expand their fleets and international routes, distorting the commercial aviation marketplace and diverting global traffic to their hubs. In fact, these carriers are expected to grow capacity at more than three times the growth rate in global GDP (a key indicator for the anticipated growth in global demand) between 2012-2020.

Qatar, Etihad and Emirates are not meaningfully stimulating new passenger demand on their routes. The only way these airlines can grow at such a rapid pace is by using the huge, artificial advantage created by government subsidies to capture U.S. airline market share, shifting American aviation jobs overseas and negatively impacting the U.S. economy. Every international roundtrip flight foregone or lost by U.S. airlines results in a net loss of more than 800 U.S. jobs.


################################################

There are agreements that the US, European and ME Airlines all signed for "Fair and Open Skies". Of course NO airline ever expected to be competing against sovereign states backed by billions of petrol dollars. That's the rub. So there are some airlines out there, in the US that back unlimited code share w/ these carriers... those MEC's need to address that... all of you need to join the ALPA PAC to fight this on the Hill. If you don't agree with me, then you are an idiot.

Tailhookah

 

[typhoonpilot]

The Maginot line worked real well too .

Protectionism = the strategy of the foolish.

If you would stop buying into the ALPA garbage on these topics and actually go out in the world to see what is happening you might then realize that the U.S. airline management is, once again, being catastrophically stupid.

There are 1 billion people in all of the Americas. One billion people in all of Europe, including Eastern Europe and Russia. This while there are 4 billion people in Asia and another 1 billion in Africa. At present population growth rates Asia will add another 1 billion people and Africa close to 2 billion by the year 2100. The population of Europe and North America is likely to decline in that time. The populace of Asia and Africa is becoming more affluent and able to afford air travel. So where is the growth in air travel going to be?

Traditionally North America and western Europe had the major air travel markets. That dynamic has been changing rapidly over the last 20 years. The growth of the ME3 and others is, in large part, directly attributable to those changing dynamics and their perfect geographical position in the world to serve the new markets.

Emirates, Etihad, and Qatar serve on average only 10 cities in the USA. British Airways serves 25, Lufthansa and Air France right up there near 20 also. Korean has two non-stops a day ATL-ICN. DAL has zero.

Interjet and Volaris in Mexico pay A320 captains $4500/month. Avianca pay a 787 captain around $7000/month. Avianca/TACA and Lan/TAM are becoming huge airline groups. They both have ambitious plans for expansion into the USA and Europe with modern efficient airliners. Yet nobody seems to be sounding a warning call on them. They are paying half of what Norwegian pay, yet somehow they are not a threat .

I would advise not enabling your management by supporting their "destined to fail strategy of protectionism". Make them open their eyes and see what revenue potential is out there in the world. Go after the revenue. That is what will protect your future, not trying to fence off a declining percentage of the world air travel market.



Typhoonpilot

 

[tailhookah]

Typhoon... maybe you can send me that hookah pipe you're puffing on. First, the European CEO's are all backing the US legacy CEO's regarding the ME3 and their government subsidies... you see, the ME3 signed open skies treaties w/ us and Europe and are now breaking those treaties because of their subsidies, low rent and low fuel prices, not to mention slave like labor conditions that would not stand in a democratic country. If you are good w/ that then touche, since I would not be able to win an argument w/ a liberal socialist with dictator tendencies.

Now as for the "ALPA" garbage you mentioned. It was ALPA's dollars on capital hill that have staved off NAI for the time. You can thank ALPA for that. The PAC is playing a huge role in keeping low rent, slave like employers out of this market all for the benefit of our futures. Now maybe you fly for one of these subsidized carriers... if so we got nothing else to talk about. But you may fly for United or AA according to your ratings and if then, you are a complete idiot to think that ALPA's concerns, along w/ the European legacy carriers are moot...

Either way, I really don't think you get it.

I'll keep my money headed towards ALPA PAC and will keep engaging my reps on the Hill to keep that $hit out of my career.

Tail

 

[Andy]

I'll keep my money headed towards ALPA PAC ...

After the ALPO push poll on age 65 and subsequent support of 65, there's no way I'd send another dime to ALPO PAC. I was a working pilot in Dec 2007. Thanks to age 65, I was laid off in 2008 and not back to work as a pilot until 2012.

You can throw your money at those bloodsuckers in Herndon, but most think they're already taking too much vig.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

United States will avoid long U.S. Customs lines now that a new preclearance facility has opened in Abu Dhabi's. Who got paid for this to happen?

 

[tailhookah]

ALPA and the U.S. airlines fought that and lost. That was a U.S. government deal that couldn't be fought off. Thank the ME lobby for that one.

 

[Flopgut]

The same industry savagely attacked by a certain region/religion, should not then become dominated by that same region/religion, ever.

 

[Heavy Set]

The Maginot line worked real well too .

Protectionism = the strategy of the foolish.

If you would stop buying into the ALPA garbage on these topics and actually go out in the world to see what is happening you might then realize that the U.S. airline management is, once again, being catastrophically stupid.

There are 1 billion people in all of the Americas. One billion people in all of Europe, including Eastern Europe and Russia. This while there are 4 billion people in Asia and another 1 billion in Africa. At present population growth rates Asia will add another 1 billion people and Africa close to 2 billion by the year 2100. The population of Europe and North America is likely to decline in that time. The populace of Asia and Africa is becoming more affluent and able to afford air travel. So where is the growth in air travel going to be?

Traditionally North America and western Europe had the major air travel markets. That dynamic has been changing rapidly over the last 20 years. The growth of the ME3 and others is, in large part, directly attributable to those changing dynamics and their perfect geographical position in the world to serve the new markets.

Emirates, Etihad, and Qatar serve on average only 10 cities in the USA. British Airways serves 25, Lufthansa and Air France right up there near 20 also. Korean has two non-stops a day ATL-ICN. DAL has zero.

Interjet and Volaris in Mexico pay A320 captains $4500/month. Avianca pay a 787 captain around $7000/month. Avianca/TACA and Lan/TAM are becoming huge airline groups. They both have ambitious plans for expansion into the USA and Europe with modern efficient airliners. Yet nobody seems to be sounding a warning call on them. They are paying half of what Norwegian pay, yet somehow they are not a threat .

I would advise not enabling your management by supporting their "destined to fail strategy of protectionism". Make them open their eyes and see what revenue potential is out there in the world. Go after the revenue. That is what will protect your future, not trying to fence off a declining percentage of the world air travel market.



Typhoonpilot

I completely agree with this post. We will never see Emirates flying between Miami and LA despite what the US legacy unions say.... Instead, our legacy airlines should aspire to offering much better service and connections. I flew UAL recently to Europe as a pax and the service was atrocious and flight attendants unhelpful. It was embarrassing. Passengers need more choices - that will lead to improved service from all carriers. This protectionism stance is anti-American.

The US legacies need to use the billions of dollars from our inflated baggage fees and invest in better airplanes, better service standards and more responsive flight attendants. That's just the truth...

 

[JohnQ]

I completely agree with this post. We will never see Emirates flying between Miami and LA despite what the US legacy unions say.... Instead, our legacy airlines should aspire to offering much better service and connections. I flew UAL recently to Europe as a pax and the service was atrocious and flight attendants unhelpful. It was embarrassing. Passengers need more choices - that will lead to improved service from all carriers. This protectionism stance is anti-American.

The US legacies need to use the billions of dollars from our inflated baggage fees and invest in better airplanes, better service standards and more responsive flight attendants. That's just the truth...

True...and who is to say that we aren't trying. As for the bad FA attitudes, while they are deplorable, you can thank the lawyers and the "Age Discrimination!" lobby for a lot of that. When is the last time you saw a group of 55yr old + FAs on any Asian or ME carrier? But if the US carriers tried to get rid of all the old FAs, the US lawsuits would be flying immediately.

Further, many pax say they want this, that and the other thing but at the end of the day they want a cheap ticket. Example from the 1990s, but still pertinent today:

A pilot buddy living in ATL had some friends fly from LAX to visit. They could have flown non-stop LAX-ATL, widebody aircraft (back in the time when we did that domestically), meal, movie, arrive in ATL mid-afternoon. Instead they flew LAX-IAH on CAL on a 737, had a four hour airport sit, then another 737 IAH-ATL, no meal on either, etc, all to save...$10!

 

[tailhookah]

A pilot buddy living in ATL had some friends fly from LAX to visit. They could have flown non-stop LAX-ATL, widebody aircraft (back in the time when we did that domestically), meal, movie, arrive in ATL mid-afternoon. Instead they flew LAX-IAH on CAL on a 737, had a four hour airport sit, then another 737 IAH-ATL, no meal on either, etc, all to save...$10

What can you do... cheap a$$ people who pay next to nothing as compared to the days of yore, yet still complain they pay too much and don't get a crappy meal. I think the legacy airlines have come a long way since the 911 downturn and now have good options back on the planes. It's not the legacy airlines fault these types of pax are a bunch of whining cheap a$$es.

I completely agree with this post. We will never see Emirates flying between Miami and LA despite what the US legacy unions say.... Instead, our legacy airlines should aspire to offering much better service and connections. I flew UAL recently to Europe as a pax and the service was atrocious and flight attendants unhelpful. It was embarrassing. Passengers need more choices - that will lead to improved service from all carriers. This protectionism stance is anti-American.

The US legacies need to use the billions of dollars from our inflated baggage fees and invest in better airplanes, better service standards and more responsive flight attendants. That's just the truth...

Emirates now flies from Rome to the US direct... so you don't think Cabotage is possible? Wake up man! It's coming if we all have your outlook on it. Right now it's still illegal inside our country, but it's being done outside and guess what? It hurts our industry. Doesn't matter if you fly for JetBlue, Southwest or Delta... it's bad ju ju. Next we'll see Emirates flying the cheaper 737's it gets through the EX-IM Bank (with your tax subsidies at work) from Cancun to Dallas Love... don't think it can't or won't happen... don't be an idiot.

Tail

 

[Dornier 335]

True...and who is to say that we aren't trying. As for the bad FA attitudes, while they are deplorable, you can thank the lawyers and the "Age Discrimination!" lobby for a lot of that. When is the last time you saw a group of 55yr old + FAs on any Asian or ME carrier? But if the US carriers tried to get rid of all the old FAs, the US lawsuits would be flying immediately.
[...]

Just ask the FAA why the US is the ONLY ICAO country that does NOT require F/As to hold medicals! It's all about "safety"!

 

[tailhookah]

Really? FA medicals... like if one drops in the fwd galley, flight safety is compromised?

Tail....

 

[typhoonpilot]

Emirates now flies from Rome to the US direct... so you don't think Cabotage is possible? Wake up man! It's coming if we all have your outlook on it. Right now it's still illegal inside our country, but it's being done outside and guess what? It hurts our industry. Doesn't matter if you fly for JetBlue, Southwest or Delta... it's bad ju ju. Next we'll see Emirates flying the cheaper 737's it gets through the EX-IM Bank (with your tax subsidies at work) from Cancun to Dallas Love... don't think it can't or won't happen... don't be an idiot.

Tail

......and there is the post that shows a severe lack of information.

1) Emirates does not operate 737s.

2) Ex-Im makes a profit so how exactly is that "your tax subsidies"?

3) Interjet and Volaris in Mexico only pay 1/3 of the salaries that the Middle East carriers pay and they already fly to the USA.


Again, you are just parroting ALPA's tripe. Do some research and critical thinking for yourself. Don't get suckered into another catastrophically bad strategic move by ALPA or airline management.



Typhoonpilot

 

[tailhookah]

Ty... no $hit they don't fly 737's. But my cabotage point is when they get them? Do you know what cabotage is? Look it up. I don't have a problem w/ a country flying from their soil to ours... and go ahead on fly on them, I won't. So they make a profit??? Then, if true makes it even worse... I hope you work for one of the ME3... otherwise you are a complete tool if you don't think this is a big deal... now if you work for one of those companies, I'd expect you to defend your right to cruise Russian hookers in Dubai and hit those Thai FA's on your layovers...

Tail...

 

[Flopgut]

Typhoon: I'd like a response from you on this point I made:

"The same industry savagely attacked by a certain region/religion, should not then become dominated by that same region/religion, ever."

I think it's a valid point. Especially if there is anything less than a fully finacially level playing field. US carriers' service is getting better, but still lacking. I get that. But it's not wrong to specifically go after the ME3 obvious $ advantages and dubious geography. Not drawing a line in the sand (pun not intended) and this will stand as a blueprint for the region to take any industry they want to.

 

[tailhookah]

Me thinks Ty works for one of the ME3... let's wait and see.

Well... were waiting.

tail

 

[tailhookah]

A recent letter penned by the UAL and DAL MEC Chairs... Captain Heppner and Captain Donatelli on March 18, 2015. I stick to the facts, not hyperbole.

Fellow Delta and United pilots,

By now many of you have read ALPA President Captain Tim Canoll?s recent letter to the membership titled ?A Deal is a Deal.? If you have not, we urge you to read his March 17th letter. Five years ago ALPA first identified the looming problem Emirates, Etihad, and Qatar Airlines (ME3) would pose to our industry and profession if their subsidized, unbridled growth was left unchecked. That problem is here today and it is our job to fix it!

We believe our industry has finally turned the corner to an outlook of sustained profitability. Our companies? recent success has been built through pilots and other employees working hard in a free market to better compete. We believe in a free and fair market and the opportunity it creates for our airlines globally. These Gulf carriers pose a threat to the free market itself as well as our carriers? bottom lines. That is why we are calling on all of our members to sign our petition demanding the U.S. government enter into consultations with Qatar and the United Arab Emirates on our Open Skies agreements.

These airlines do not compete fairly, where demand determines capacity and the bottom line drives growth. The ME3 have collectively received more than $42 billion in subsidies from their governments in the past ten years. Fueled by this massive infusion of public cash, they have become the fastest growing airlines in the world, stealing our market share, lowering our revenues, and costing us jobs.

The latest front of the ME3?s war against our carriers is our European routes. After entering an already competitive market in 2013, Emirates now accounts for nearly 19 percent of the bookings between New York and Milan. They are currently selling tickets for $799 for two round trip seats on a B-777 and will soon up-gauge to an A380. They are running the flight with only 40 percent load factor. Profits do not matter when your government is willing to absorb any and all losses.

In Asia, in India, and in Europe, our routes and our jobs are being threatened. Even our managements, so often focused on beating each other in the marketplace, have joined together with ALPA and others to fight back against these predatory, market-distorting carriers. Our Partnership for Open & Fair Skies has published a white paper proving the massive, unprecedented subsidies that are now directly impacting U.S. airline industry jobs.

Together, we are calling on all of our pilots to join with their Master Executive Councils (MECs) to engage our government on this issue. Sign the petition, contact your elected officials, and contribute to ALPA-PAC to help fight back against state-owned enterprises subsidizing their way into our markets. Our jobs and industry are under attack by the ME3 carriers. Make no mistake. If left unchecked their actions will cause irreparable long-term harm to our careers. Join with us to demand the U.S. government review the subsidies, begin consultations with Qatar and the UAE, and require these carriers to open their books and play by the rules!

The only way you are ok w/ this issue is if you fly for the ME3. Otherwise your career is in jeopardy. No $hit.

Tailhookah

 

[tailhookah]

Sign the petition... donate to the PAC. Don't be stupid... don't believe Typhoonpilot... he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Again, you are just parroting ALPA's tripe. Do some research and critical thinking for yourself. Don't get suckered into another catastrophically bad strategic move by ALPA or airline management.

Typhoonpilot

I guess all those CEO's, Senators, Congressmen and Union Reps who are quoted on the website are all just parroting "ALPA's tripe" also... don't listen to Ty.... he knows not what he's talking about.

http://www.openandfairskies.com/


Tailhookah

PS... ty I am waiting for your retort... show me the "tripe"!