American... Get that rig!

[HA25]

Guys, don't vote yes unless they put that DAL rig language in or it's going to spell bad news for all of us!

trip rig is industry standard now... don't settle for less!

5.15+/day

 

[Tanker Clown]

I think the SWA rig is almost 6. That's the "standard" that needs to be met.

 

[HA25]

This ^^^

If AA doesn't get a rig in this contract, my little Legacy airline is going to have an impossible run at it! that would suck beyond words..

 

[CaptETWes]

It's already been ratified. 66/34 with 94% turnout according to the APA.

 

[HowardBorden]

I think the SWA rig is almost 6. That's the "standard" that needs to be met.

6.5 TFP which converts to roughly 5.66 hourly.

 

[Tanker Clown]

So Delta has a substandard rig and American's new rig is substandard to Delta's already substandard rig? Not exactly moving the ball forward...

 

[Green]

I know facts are not encouraged on this board but AA was not in traditional Section 6 negotiations. The company had all the leverage this time around. AA did not have a minimum day and the company had cost neutral arbitration as a back stop in case the JCBA was turned down. APA agreed to this in order to get rid of Horton and save what was left of the pension. Essentially the company offered up the pay rates to keep the peace. Accepting the contract increased the duration one year and kept all the current work rules currently in place.

 

[jonjuan]

So Delta has a substandard rig and American's new rig is substandard to Delta's already substandard rig? Not exactly moving the ball forward...

Now swa just need to fix its substandard pay, retirement, and uniforms.

 

[Tanker Clown]

Delta is $212 an hour while Southwest is $216. That's on airline pilot central.

Looks like Delta has substandard wages to go along with their substandard rigs. At least American fixed the pay part.

You guys better hope SWA continues to carry the water for you.

 

[CaptETWes]

Delta is $212 an hour while Southwest is $216. That's on airline pilot central.

Looks like Delta has substandard wages to go along with their substandard rigs. At least American fixed the pay part.

You guys better hope SWA continues to carry the water for you.

Perhaps you shouldn't be relying on APC as fact. Delta top rate (12 years) on the 900ER is $218.05 and the 800/700 is $216.92. Those are as of Jan 1, 2015.

 

[Carl S.]

American pilots accepted 7 additional concessions to get an early and increase in pay and also pushed out Section 6 till 2020. The money was the bribe and the pilots accepted it, this is a 9/11 contract till 2020, do not polish this turd into something it is not...no profit sharing also.

 

[Green]

As a reference 12 year CA pay at AA for the 737/A320 will be $228/hour this year and by 2019 $256/hour. As Carl mentioned there isn't much else n the contract except for the 401k contribution.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Now swa just need to fix its substandard pay, retirement, and uniforms.

Don't forget parking, reserve rules (all except min days off) and ability to drop trips...

 

[jonjuan]

Perhaps you shouldn't be relying on APC as fact. Delta top rate (12 years) on the 900ER is $218.05 and the 800/700 is $216.92. Those are as of Jan 1, 2015.

Whoops-looks like tanker boy just got POwnwed once again. Now about bringing up your substandard pay, retirement, and uniforms, pool boy.

 

[redflyer65]

There are plenty of people that are clueless about the SW pay system.

I just finished flying around 85 hours of flight time for Jan, and will be paid 126 trips for pay. Picked up a few trips, some deadheading in there, and that awesome rig of 6.5 per day showed up a few times. No premium and I'll make the equivalent of a 12 year Delta widebody FO. Around 180/hr per hour flown.

Substandard? Hardly. Now I'm all for increasing the retirement component and increasing the pay with at least min COLA raises, but to throw the whole structure under the bus just because you're ex-Tranny is ridiculous.

Parking? Yea that's a huge benefit. Reserve? Maybe we could get airport standby like AirTran had. Give me a break.

Nobody comes close on..

1. Rig per day
2. Codeshare, scope
3. Pay structure in general

 

[FurloughedAgain]

I haven't worked for AirTran since 1998, and back then it was no place you would want to be. So I can't speak to that. Parking is a matter of principle. Why are we paying for the privilege of being at work? In bases like Vegas it is thousands of dollars per year! As for reserve, there are many things that can be done to improve the quality of life of pilots on reserve, especially those who commute.

Let's not throw away possible QOL improvements in favor of bragging rights as to who has the biggest W2. There is more to life than that.

 

[redflyer65]

FA,

I agree. I'd like to see improvement no doubt. Paid parking would be nice. We need to pull together to get this done because Gary isn't just going to hand it over.

1.4 Billion in profit for 2014 and 3 Billion dollars in the bank. Just remember those numbers going forward. Oh, and one more...

500 Million in 1st quarter savings for fuel. Big, big numbers.

They can afford some improvements. No question.

 

[jonjuan]

There are plenty of people that are clueless about the SW pay system.

I just finished flying around 85 hours of flight time for Jan, and will be paid 126 trips for pay. Picked up a few trips, some deadheading in there, and that awesome rig of 6.5 per day showed up a few times. No premium and I'll make the equivalent of a 12 year Delta widebody FO. Around 180/hr per hour flown.

Well then-I suppose you are more than adequately paid. Good luck on getting management to give you more when it's apparently so easy to make $$$. Why again should they pay you more?

 

[HighSpeedClimb]

See below

 

[HighSpeedClimb]

Parking is a matter of principle. Why are we paying for the privilege of being at work? In bases like Vegas it is thousands of dollars per year!

I'm based in LAS and pay for parking. It's $40/mo or $480/yr. where do you come up with thousands of dollars a year? Anyway, still want the company to pay it.

 

[HowardBorden]

There are plenty of people that are clueless about the SW pay system.

I just finished flying around 85 hours of flight time for Jan, and will be paid 126 trips for pay. Picked up a few trips, some deadheading in there, and that awesome rig of 6.5 per day showed up a few times. No premium and I'll make the equivalent of a 12 year Delta widebody FO. Around 180/hr per hour flown.

Substandard? Hardly. Now I'm all for increasing the retirement component and increasing the pay with at least min COLA raises, but to throw the whole structure under the bus just because you're ex-Tranny is ridiculous.

Parking? Yea that's a huge benefit. Reserve? Maybe we could get airport standby like AirTran had. Give me a break.

Nobody comes close on..

1. Rig per day
2. Codeshare, scope
3. Pay structure in general

I agree with most of what you are saying about most being clueless about the SWA pay system. But to be fair, 126TFP equates to a more understandable 110 units of pay converted to hourly.

I love the trip for pay system. SWA has a huge amount of soft pay involved with it. The rigs are very beneficial and don't even get me started on the value of scope and codeshare, it is incalculable.

 

[LearLove]

American pilots accepted 7 additional concessions to get an early and increase in pay and also pushed out Section 6 till 2020. The money was the bribe and the pilots accepted it, this is a 9/11 contract till 2020, do not polish this turd into something it is not...no profit sharing also.

So now you are complaining? Aren't you based in PHX? Yeah all those LAA pilots based in PHX. Well at least you're not blaming it on USAPA, yet. Let me guess, it's everyone else's fault except AWA guys.

% Yes
STL 91.91%
PHX 91.17%
ORD 82.75%
SFO 81.82%
BOS 74.77%
LAX 73.62%
DFW 66.32%
CLT 64.97%
DCA 64.54%
LGA 54.71%
PHL 51.33%
MIA 45.38%

seems only Miami has balls.

 

[Guppiedriver]

So now you are complaining? Aren't you based in PHX? Yeah all those LAA pilots based in PHX. Well at least you're not blaming it on USAPA, yet. Let me guess, it's everyone else's fault except AWA guys.

% Yes
STL 91.91%
PHX 91.17%
ORD 82.75%
SFO 81.82%
BOS 74.77%
LAX 73.62%
DFW 66.32%
CLT 64.97%
DCA 64.54%
LGA 54.71%
PHL 51.33%
MIA 45.38%

seems only Miami has balls.

Balls? You guys haven't learned s hit in the last 9 years, have you?

 

[redflyer65]

I agree with most of what you are saying about most being clueless about the SWA pay system. But to be fair, 126TFP equates to a more understandable 110 units of pay converted to hourly.

I love the trip for pay system. SWA has a huge amount of soft pay involved with it. The rigs are very beneficial and don't even get me started on the value of scope and codeshare, it is incalculable.

I get what your saying Howard, but I was doing more of an actual conversion...not the hypothetical 1.15 conversion. It looks like this...

126 trips X 125/trip = $15750 for the month. I flew 85 actual hours, so..

$15,750 divided by 85 = an equivalent $185/per hour worked.

I guess a big reason for those numbers are that our FO payrates are tied to the CA rate at 70%. I don't know of any other major that has it set up this way. Maybe to help with the $40/month parking?

 

[HA25]

after reading thru this, it's just depressing..

Management at AA squeezed out a ton of productivity from the pilots (looks like the AWA guys jumped on it!).. and gave them an "hourly" raise that lines up with DAL.. Had they just waited for a section six, they'd have done a lot better for themselves. The problem is not just how much you get paid, but HOW you clock those hours?? I can't believe this crap.

I sure hope this doesn't poison our negotiations at HAL... thanks AA! (not)

 

[LearLove]

HA25 gets it. Years ago as a 135 pilot we dreamed of 80 hours wide body pay in 9 days/ month. Then it became more like 12 days per month. Finally it looked like most of us would have to settle for 80 hours narrow body in 14 days per month. Now I think the new reality for us junior line holders is 75 to 80 hours of pay in 16 days per month.

 

[redflyer65]

after reading thru this, it's just depressing..

Management at AA squeezed out a ton of productivity from the pilots (looks like the AWA guys jumped on it!).. and gave them an "hourly" raise that lines up with DAL.. Had they just waited for a section six, they'd have done a lot better for themselves. The problem is not just how much you get paid, but HOW you clock those hours?? I can't believe this crap.

I sure hope this doesn't poison our negotiations at HAL... thanks AA! (not)

I thought if they turned this down, they had already agreed to arbitration on the combined contract.

 

[Carl S.]

Lear, I was one of the few (115) PHX guys who was totally against extending this turd till 2020 and am being grilled for it. Tell your USAPA buddies to give us our merger fund back, it will make NIC II that much easier for you to swallow....

 

[HA25]

This is a tragedy. The one F'n time in the past 15 years the industry is making record profits and then this.

Wow.

 

[dollacrackho]

American is mostly composed of old guys who are about to retire. Did anyone really think this was going to get rejected? And what up phoenix? Thought you guys were badasses. You practically gang raped Doug for the money.