NetJets Union Disaster Unfolding

[rajflyboy]

Perhaps it's just that simple...for every class of new-hires at 1st year pay, the company clears off an equal number, or greater, of potential returnees that would come in at year 6/7/8 pay. Easier to budget when you know exactly where payroll will be in the next few years...

ding ding ding

ding ding ding

ding ding ding

 

[JungleJett]

Make PIC and SIC pay the same.

 

[ghostrider64]

NJASAP laid it out today, they are interpreting the CBA exactly as is the company, therefore they will not pursue this, as they feel there is no grievance. BTW the person "interpreting on the unions side" is the one who negotiated the language to begin with.

A full class worth of guys are recalled, 30. If any fail to accept the offer, perhaps 10, those 10 then will be issued a final recall notice. Basically those that don't accept the offer, then would be "the most junior" and get one final chance to accept.

In essence, those on furlough seniority rights are being protected, because the most senior will be able to defer longer.

In the end everyone has to make a decision that fits their needs and futures. What I'm learning is it really sucks to be at the bottom of any list, and the rumor is we will be hiring 200 new guys this year, might be reason enough to come back, or not.

 

[ghostrider64]

Make PIC and SIC pay the same.

I don't think anyone would argue against this. The reality is the current FOs are as qualified as all the PICs. They've been here a minimum of 8 years now. My personal thoughts are there should be some who are FOs, new hires etc... whose status would change to PIC after a certain number of years actually flying the line. The number of years is open for debate, but the reality is this flying isn't duplicated many other places, and there is a big learning curve.

It's not just pushing throttles forward. Hell in the past week I flew to 2 places I've never heard of, that were both minimum runways lengths and widths required, and were both unattended without fuel etc... Had we not caught that last tid bit, we'd still be sitting there because dispatch hadn't given us enough fuel to get anywhere afterwards. Had I been fresh off new hire indoc, I certainly wouldn't have caught it.

 

[BentOver]

What were upgrades back in 2000-2005? And earlier in the 90's...

If I remember correctly a year or less....that sounds like a good number... Didn't some guys upgrade right after initial back in 2001ish?

 

[pilotyip]

the reality is this flying isn't duplicated many other places, and there is a big learning curve.

It's not just pushing throttles forward. Hell in the past week I flew to 2 places I've never heard of, that were both minimum runways lengths and widths required, and were both unattended without fuel etc... Had we not caught that last tid bit, we'd still be sitting there because dispatch hadn't given us enough fuel to get anywhere afterwards. Had I been fresh off new hire indoc, I certainly wouldn't have caught it.

Heck sound like the on-demand cargo business, except with people, maybe that is why NJ has hired 26 of our pilots over the years,

 

[SCT]

"It's not just pushing throttles forward. Hell in the past week I flew to 2 places I've never heard of, that were both minimum runways lengths and widths required, and were both unattended without fuel etc... Had we not caught that last tid bit, we'd still be sitting there because dispatch hadn't given us enough fuel to get anywhere afterwards. Had I been fresh off new hire indoc, I certainly wouldn't have caught it. "

No offense, but isn't that part of pre-flight planning that most any 91 pilot does every day?

 

[Willy21]

How much time does the part 91 pilot have to look at all of that? How many times does he plan for different airports in a day only to have them change multiple times at the last minute?

 

[ghostrider64]

There are those that always argue against others opinions. The years '99-'04 were terrifying for a multitude of reasons. Rapid expansion in any industry can and in our case was very dangerous, at times. We were in fact damned lucky not to have had a fatal accident, and there were many complete hull losses. Fortunately now, EVERYONE at NJA has years of experience, and we tend to make the job look incredibly easy. I purposefully delayed upgrading because I knew I had much more to learn before I felt I was comfortable enough to do the job safely.

Discount building experience of our work if you wish, but you'll never convince me that folks with ZERO jet time should be thrown into the left seat right after passing their type ratings. Then operating in completely unfamiliar geographic regions. Take a peek into third world corporate aviation and their accident rates, were often jobs are given based on familial ties, and not competence, or experience.

As Willy points out, most of us are doing 4 legs a day now, with one hour turns. A lot of things could and would be easily missed, if you hadn't developed a mental checklist of everything that's expected and required. Yesterday I had to review 3 different destination changes within that one hour period, due to trying to avoid ground delays at the original destination, and once again I ended up at a dinky airport I'd never been to. FUN TIMES

Once again, all those with years of experience should be receive PIC pay now, but they'd never actually fly as one. That's the selling point you'd have to make to the EMT, who wants to cut all of our pay BTW.

 

[ghostrider64]

"It's not just pushing throttles forward. Hell in the past week I flew to 2 places I've never heard of, that were both minimum runways lengths and widths required, and were both unattended without fuel etc... Had we not caught that last tid bit, we'd still be sitting there because dispatch hadn't given us enough fuel to get anywhere afterwards. Had I been fresh off new hire indoc, I certainly wouldn't have caught it. "

No offense, but isn't that part of pre-flight planning that most any 91 pilot does every day?

And no offense taken, it always looks much easier from the outside.

 

[Hawkered]

Yeah damn those guys who should be protected under our contract. Why would the door hit me on the ass?

...because you couldn't find another job at a 121 or reputable carrier, and should NOT have been employed in the first place if you think anyone owes you a job after this amount of time not having one that compares to an F/O salary with no immediate future of upgrade.

I can only wonder if you were qualified to really be employed in the first place.

 

[Hawkered]

"It's not just pushing throttles forward. Hell in the past week I flew to 2 places I've never heard of, that were both minimum runways lengths and widths required, and were both unattended without fuel etc... Had we not caught that last tid bit, we'd still be sitting there because dispatch hadn't given us enough fuel to get anywhere afterwards. Had I been fresh off new hire indoc, I certainly wouldn't have caught it. "

No offense, but isn't that part of pre-flight planning that most any 91 pilot does every day?

If you haven't done a take-off from a dirt strip where you pumped your own fuel from a 50 gallon drum, you're full of ******************** and not worthy in the first place.

Calm down on the melodrama princess!!!

 

[JetProp]

What were upgrades back in 2000-2005? And earlier in the 90's...

If I remember correctly a year or less....that sounds like a good number... Didn't some guys upgrade right after initial back in 2001ish?

Guys were upgrading during indoc, circa 02.

 

[JungleJett]

I doubt you have either. And if so, in what airplane and where?

If you haven't done a take-off from a dirt strip where you pumped your own fuel from a 50 gallon drum, you're full of ******************** and not worthy in the first place.

Calm down on the melodrama princess!!!

 

[imacdog]

...because you couldn't find another job at a 121 or reputable carrier, and should NOT have been employed in the first place if you think anyone owes you a job after this amount of time not having one that compares to an F/O salary with no immediate future of upgrade.

I can only wonder if you were qualified to really be employed in the first place.

That was rough. Could you try again in English, please?

 

[Hawkered]

The only thing "rough" here is reading all the whining $#?+ on here and the union message board.
If you don't like your union or the company then leave.

 

[Hawkered]

I doubt you have either. And if so, in what airplane and where?

In Siberia, living in a hut where I walked in bare feet to school at all times of the year uphill.

 

[imacdog]

The only thing "rough" here is reading all the whining $#?+ on here and the union message board.
If you don't like your union or the company then leave.

I'd prefer to work toward making both better. Sorry to hear that you like the way the company is going, considering you haven't left.

 

[Hawkered]

The Jerry Springer show is what you guys are turning this place into. Totally unprofessional!

 

[realityman]

The Jerry Springer show is what you guys are turning this place into. Totally unprofessional!

Then why is such an educated, fact-driven, unemotional person who thinks the job is wonderful such as yourself still on here?

Always fun to watch someone tell us if we're so unhappy with the job to just quit and go somewhere else, but then express dissatisfaction with these boards and yet continue hanging around.

Buh-bye.