Delta to add service from Seattle to Boise, Denver, Ketchikan, Sitka, and boost more

[Green Banana]

So, all that money must secure your pension plan.......

 

[General Lee]

With oil as low as it is, look to see ALL airlines significantly lowering "book" debt.

Yeah, and DL lowered debt by $14 Billion in 6 years with higher oil prices. That's the difference. I've heard forecasting a $6 Billion profit next year if oil stays low.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[EngineThunder]

Yeah, and DL lowered debt by $14 Billion in 6 years with higher oil prices. That's the difference. I've heard forecasting a $6 Billion profit next year if oil stays low.



Bye Bye---General Lee

6 billion in profit and new hires still pay for hotel room in training. Go figure.

 

[General Lee]

6 billion in profit and new hires still pay for hotel room in training. Go figure.

Partial, not the first two weeks.(which are paid for) But, how's the first year pay rate compared to the others? And profit sharing for the year is included. Use those figures while you're at it Chunder...



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[EngineThunder]

Partial, not the first two weeks.(which are paid for) But, how's the first year pay rate compared to the others? And profit sharing for the year is included. Use those figures while you're at it Chunder...



Bye Bye---General Lee

At the end of the day they are still paying for training. In this day and age??? Record profits due to bankruptcy and pilots taking huge cuts. Are you guys back to your pre bankruptcy pay rates?

 

[Green Banana]

Looks like 757 was too much airplane for JNU. Delta shows a SkyWest RJ for summer schedule. So all outsourced flying to SE Alaska.

I'll save you the post General Lee....

I'm sure you will up gauge to a main line 737 when loads improve........

 

[General Lee]

Looks like 757 was too much airplane for JNU. Delta shows a SkyWest RJ for summer schedule. So all outsourced flying to SE Alaska.

I'll save you the post General Lee....

I'm sure you will up gauge to a main line 737 when loads improve........

Everyone knew the 757 was too big, but it sure did a number on your monopoly and profits for that route, and it apparently didn't dent the estimated $4.2 billion profit this year at DL. And as long as there is some sort of DL plane on your routes, the less money you get to charge. You lose. Wut wut? Yeah, you do. Every time you see a DL Widebody in SEA, you probably krap your pants. The answer for you? Buy more pants....



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

At the end of the day they are still paying for training. In this day and age??? Record profits due to bankruptcy and pilots taking huge cuts. Are you guys back to your pre bankruptcy pay rates?

Huge cuts? New hire pay rates per hour are the highest, it includes profit sharing which most others do not, and a large chunk of the training is paid for. It sure hasn't stopped the applications, there will be 165 new hires in Nov alone.

And current pilot rates aren't exactly at pre-BK rates, but include the profit sharing (about 20% of the W2 this year, probably 25% next year), and yeah, they are back, and will be surpassed with the new contract coming in 2015.

You lose Chunder.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[CaptETWes]

At the end of the day they are still paying for training. In this day and age??? Record profits due to bankruptcy and pilots taking huge cuts. Are you guys back to your pre bankruptcy pay rates?

That's a huge stretch. Paying for a hotel during training is not pay for training. Signing a training contract or being required to have a type prior to class is paying for training. Regardless of how one spins it, I hope that changes with the next contract.

 

[chillidawg]

Is there anything that DL doesn't do right?

 

[bluesideup1]

That's a huge stretch. Paying for a hotel during training is not pay for training. Signing a training contract or being required to have a type prior to class is paying for training. Regardless of how one spins it, I hope that changes with the next contract.

What if they were required to have an ATP would that be paying for training? I know you took a swipe at SW for requiring the type but there are many that had the type from previous jobs and they paid nothing during training. So how is it that the pilots of SW that don't pay anything during training are some how a "pay for training" airline. While the delta pilots who do pay money during their training are not?

 

[CaptETWes]

What if they were required to have an ATP would that be paying for training? I know you took a swipe at SW for requiring the type but there are many that had the type from previous jobs and they paid nothing during training. So how is it that the pilots of SW that don't pay anything during training are some how a "pay for training" airline. While the delta pilots who do pay money during their training are not?

Hotel costs are only required if you don't live in ATL during sim training. As hiring stays consistent, more and more will be doing theirs in MIA for example. That's company paid. From my perspective, most of the people I know at SW or who want to be there bought the type just to be considered. I'd like to know where SW would be today if they paid for the types for every pilot they've hired over their existence. What's more unfair? A $5-8k type (usually on the hopes and dreams of getting an interview)? Or a roughly $500-1500 hotel cost for a couple of weeks? A pilot who lives in ATL or knows family, et al, therefore doesn't pay for training? I'm not defending the contract language at DAL. Hell, I get the business case for SW requiring its pilots to have the type prior to class. But to suggest that a couple of weeks worth of hotels is somehow more significant than buying an entire type - which requires...what for it...training - is horribly misleading. Also, which of these options would be easier to swing financially (if someone didn't have the type prior to class at SW)?

My point really had nothing to do with SW. The person I originally quoted claimed that straight-up hotel costs were somehow a pay-for-training scheme. Personally, I'd rather face the hotel expense after knowing I had the job than on a wing and a prayer hoping I'd get called after getting the type for SW. As for your ATP question, that doesn't apply here. First, everyone is now required to have it per the FAA. Second, I paid for every bit of my training and certification from 0 hours until I got my CFI. Does that mean I sinned against the god of aviation for doing so?

 

[EngineThunder]

That's a huge stretch. Paying for a hotel during training is not pay for training. Signing a training contract or being required to have a type prior to class is paying for training. Regardless of how one spins it, I hope that changes with the next contract.

The General has stated before on here that if it benefits the company, from a cost perspective, that it is PFT. Paying for your own hotel during training most definitely benefits the company.

Didn't intend to open up this debate again, just reminding GLEE of his previous comments.

 

[Mea25000]

Everyone knew the 757 was too big, but it sure did a number on your monopoly and profits for that route, and it apparently didn't dent the estimated $4.2 billion profit this year at DL. And as long as there is some sort of DL plane on your routes, the less money you get to charge. You lose. Wut wut? Yeah, you do. Every time you see a DL Widebody in SEA, you probably krap your pants. The answer for you? Buy more pants....



Bye Bye---General Lee

That is a stupid comment. We had a 21% profit margin in Q3, 7 percent better then yours. We made money on SEA- JUN and you guys did not. How do I know.. well because there will be a Delta RJ up there next summer. Did you guys shave off a few dollars from some of our routes.. Yes you did. Did we shave off a few dollars of profit from some of your routes.. Yes we did. Both companies had record setting Q3's. No buddy's Dad beat up the other Dad. It's called competition and well to be honest it was actually pretty begnine on both accounts. The question you should be asking is why was RA so intent on wooing the AS MEC.. So much so that AS brass told them "We don't want you talking to him anymore"... Now that is a very good question to ponder.

 

[bluesideup1]

Hotel costs are only required if you don't live in ATL during sim training. As hiring stays consistent, more and more will be doing theirs in MIA for example. That's company paid. From my perspective, most of the people I know at SW or who want to be there bought the type just to be considered. I'd like to know where SW would be today if they paid for the types for every pilot they've hired over their existence. What's more unfair? A $5-8k type (usually on the hopes and dreams of getting an interview)? Or a roughly $500-1500 hotel cost for a couple of weeks? A pilot who lives in ATL or knows family, et al, therefore doesn't pay for training? I'm not defending the contract language at DAL. Hell, I get the business case for SW requiring its pilots to have the type prior to class. But to suggest that a couple of weeks worth of hotels is somehow more significant than buying an entire type - which requires...what for it...training - is horribly misleading. Also, which of these options would be easier to swing financially (if someone didn't have the type prior to class at SW)?

My point really had nothing to do with SW. The person I originally quoted claimed that straight-up hotel costs were somehow a pay-for-training scheme. Personally, I'd rather face the hotel expense after knowing I had the job than on a wing and a prayer hoping I'd get called after getting the type for SW. As for your ATP question, that doesn't apply here. First, everyone is now required to have it per the FAA. Second, I paid for every bit of my training and certification from 0 hours until I got my CFI. Does that mean I sinned against the god of aviation for doing so?

So what you are saying is it is only pay for training if it costs a lot?

Because as one who didn't have the type before getting hired I don't see the difference. I also know plenty who got the type off the government dole by either going through the military or job retraining programs. They also had them from other airlines so many paid nothing to get the job at Southwest.

I lived in and based out of Dallas and I still got a paid hotel room for both initial ground school and upgrade. (was nice to get away from the distractions of home during parts of training).

BTW I think it is a stupid requirement and should be done away with as there are at least 1,700 now on the list that did not have to get a type before becoming a SW pilot.