Why hire military over your competition?

[maru657]

Well, Boxboy "talk about a wall. No prob, but if you girls want the advantages of a labour system supported by other pilots, I think your sad shape. Those boys who sat by watching you take a job you weren't qualified for probably will not have any respect for your efforts. There's a reason no legacy can afford a strike anymore.

 

[pilotyip]

Fixed it for ya.

here you go fixed it for you.

I believe I have been consistent. It has been posted that I am anti-college degree. Nothing could is further from the truth. The country needs all the college-educated citizens it can have, its raises the level of knowledge to keep this as the greatest country in the world. Real degrees in business, engineering, the sciences, math, and medicine provide a graduate with marketable skills. If you are going to go to college, get a real degree from a real university. I have said never don?t get a degree, I have admitted that it will probably open doors, but it has nothing to do with flying an airplane. It is only a box to be checked on an application. Going to a 4 yr. college out of high school is not the only way to get your degree. This following example in the model of success in pursing flying job. We hired a 20 year old pilot a few years ago, 1 year of on-line college credit completed, started working the ramp pumping gas in high school, got hired hauling cargo in SA-227 as an F/O, at 18, got promoted to 208 Capt. at age 20, he has 1600 TT, 1100 MEL, 350 Turbine PIC, 1450 total turbine, he is started as a DA-20 F/O at $33K, he was a DA-20 Capt. the day he turned 23, he had his degree completed by the time he was 26 years old. At that time he should had 5200 TT, 4700 MEL, 5050 Turbine, 3200 hours 121 time, 1200 121 Turbo Jet PIC. He had his on-line BS degree in Aviation Management that our company helped pay for through the tuition assistance program, and no debt. He will be interviewing with the 4 or 5 year traditional college graduate for his first airline job, The traditional 4 yr. degree guy who has TT 1200 350 MEL 15 Turbine. Who is the more competitive? For the ?College Only? crowd, there are many ways to skin a cat, you have your way that you feel is the only way anyone should do things. "The way I did it". I do not agree with you, if my grandson elected to pursue a pilots career, I will recommend he not go to college full time, but follow the other time tested path where I have seen too many people succeed. That is fly full time, do your degree on the side, build time, build your resume. I will not debate the fall back value of a college degree, as I have stated many times it is nearly worthless after not being used for 30 years. Let me give you the background on the college degree thing. I do not judge a man by his degree, where he lives, or what he does for a living. I judge a man on the content of his character. I find the college degrees only crowd here, a bit arrogant, a smacking of if you does not have a degree you are not as good as me. I know too many people who are successful and fine men who do not have a degree, I know many people with degrees who will never make any impact upon anything. I know too many pilots without degrees who I consider some of the most successful people I know. I admire them and the lives they have built. So I bait, about the non-importance of the college degree in this business. I think this sets off the college degree only crowd because it distorts their view of what they have done. Many have posted they agree it has nothing to do with the mastering on an airplane. I have seen too many non-degreed pilots reach a good career position with out a degree.

 

[livin'thesim]

Yip-

Speaking as someone WITH a degree, I am completely in agreement.

Once again, it is human nature to try and gather to oneself elite status through group association.

This comes from manifest insecurity about competing head-on with other with actual knowledge, skill, wit, and innate abilities. Those who are insecure about the content of their own existence will attempt to drape themselves in the glory and/or status of other people, of organizations, or of their race, education, or other such trait.

Once again, it is a "power-distance" tactic, where someone is trying to preempt the legitimate challenges posed by others. It is intellectually lazy, on top of that.

The trick is to see that the tactic is being employed, and call them out on it.

And let's not forget that many people have shelled out a lot of money for degrees that are not really ever applied to their line of work, and they are trying to rationalize away their "sunk costs":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_costs

Loss aversion comes into play here as well. I enjoyed my time in college, and I learned some cool things. Very few of them apply to flying airplanes. I would be no worse a pilot without my degree. But hey, the money's spent, so why worry about it now?

 

[livin'thesim]

By the way, Yip, if people REALLY want a fall-back option, they would be smarter to go to a trade school and learn plumbing or carpentry, and keep those skills sharp doing side work while they fly. That is a far better course of action than thinking your 15-year dormant degree in business admin, communications, or English is going to get you anything other than a green apron stained with espresso.

 

[b737jock]

As a civilian trained pilot That flys a 74 into Afghanistan I say more power to the military guys getting the first call. I know that with the numbers that are going to be hired we will all get the call degree or not that is there for YIP. I do not feel just because I have big airplane experience that I should get the first call. I will get it when it is my time. I have never flown an RJ and cant speak intelligently on how there life is but I gather It sucks. Well so did flying 135 night freight. I guess what I am trying to say is don't judge someones experience until you have lived in there world. We all do the same thing when it comes down to it. I say good luck to all of us.. It is exciting times!!

 

[pilotyip]

By the way, Yip, if people REALLY want a fall-back option, they would be smarter to go to a trade school and learn plumbing or carpentry, and keep those skills sharp doing side work while they fly. That is a far better course of action than thinking your 15-year dormant degree in business admin, communications, or English is going to get you anything other than a green apron stained with espresso.

Bingo on that one, The fall back value of a degree in greatly over rated. I have a BS in Education and a Master's in Management, but at age 53, I was making $250/wk loading cargo. After Zantop pretended to go out of went out of business in 1997, I had been a temporary High School Chemistry Teacher up until two weeks before the cargo job came along. However, they do not teach school in the summer so I had to take the cargo job. The value of an unused degree is highly over rated. 53 year old unemployed airline pilots are not eagerly greeted in any industry that I know of, even of having a couple degrees. Of course, I did not apply for many of the "College degree preferred jobs" such as apt manager, telephone direct sales, and plumping floor manager at Home Depot, etc. If you get a college degree you have to use, the knowledge gained in college to develop a career or the degree is useless. After getting a degree, flying an airplane is not a knowledge expanding experience; it is skill development experience. Anyone care to chime in and share their experiences on entering the non-aviation job market after being out of college 20-30 years?

As a civilian trained pilot That flys a 74 into Afghanistan I say more power to the military guys getting the first call. I know that with the numbers that are going to be hired we will all get the call degree or not that is there for YIP. I do not feel just because I have big airplane experience that I should get the first call. I will get it when it is my time. I have never flown an RJ and cant speak intelligently on how there life is but I gather It sucks. Well so did flying 135 night freight. I guess what I am trying to say is don't judge someones experience until you have lived in there world. We all do the same thing when it comes down to it. I say good luck to all of us.. It is exciting times!!

Thanks you also, you seem to understand the big picture.

 

[maru657]

Nobody's knocking a degree and certainly not higher education but it has very little to do with flying an airplane.

 

[waveflyer]

Back to the degree thing eh?
In all things, you get what you give.
You may certainly learn nothing and fail to grow while squeaking by classes.
College for me had a lot of parties- but I learned how to socialize. I was an athlete and that was so fun- but I learned how to work- set small goals and figure out how to do things I had thought impossible for me. (I learned hand eye coordination on another level too and learned how to train the nervous system).
I studied subjects I had no interest in, but learned how to work at things I didn't care about and still achieve the goal- the experience of which made me more adaptable and trainable. And our college emphasized having professors that were current and active in their field or retired - mentors that have been doing this gig and know what it's like to raise a family as an airline pilot. Who know what it's like to have businesses on an airline schedule and can impart what it is to be a pro.

Me and the vast majority of my classmates are better employees and pilots bc of those thousands of interactions with our peers, professors, and mentors-

Who cares about accounting 101? I'm probably the only one in my aviation class who uses that one. It's the rest of the experience that makes you stronger. And that strength is what gets you jobs- not leaning on the degree yelling "but I have a degree!"

Yip, I don't know you, so I cannot speak to your character. But if your posts here are any indication, it's no mystery why you've had the mediocre jobs you have- poor economies in the 80's left behind a lot of good men who worked well but didn't develop themselves to that next level-
It's harsh but you don't need to advise young people away from higher education. That atmosphere of questioning and challenging each other is invaluable

 

[DCAA320]

Hey idiots, The Philadelphia Eagles coach prefers guys with college degrees. Google the Wall Street Journal for the article.

You can ask, what does a college degree have to do with football?

********************, I know some of you mofos are tech challenged.

The Philadelphia Eagles value a college degree over combine numbers. Here's why
Ask Eagles GM Howie Roseman one of the most important traits of successful people across all walks of life and his answer may surprise you, but it's a belief that helped mold the way him and his head coach, Chip Kelly, are shaping the Eagles franchise, starting with the NFL Draft.

"When you look at people who are successful in any profession, it always goes back to college graduates. We found that NFL players are no different." Roseman explained to the Wall Street Journal.

That philosophical light bulb went off when both Roseman and Kelly independently discovered that the most successful NFL teams happen to be the ones with the most college graduates. Kelly first heard of this philosophy when Tony Dungy came to give a talk to his team at Oregon. In the talk, Dungy mentioned that while he was coaching in the 2000's the two teams loaded with college grads (the Colts and the Patriots) dominated the NFL ranks for years.

That was somewhat of a "light bulb moment" for Kelly at the time. As he talked to Dungy more, the former Colts head coach explained that his research showed that players with college degrees were more likely to earn a second NFL contract. Dungy told Kelly that the "guys with degrees have what you're looking for. They are driven."

The Wall Street Journal explains that Roseman was doing similar research before Kelly came on board as the head coach, having him and his front office guys look beyond the height and weight and into the background of the players on the four remaining playoff teams each year. His research showed that of the three teams that took the most fifth-year draft eligible seniors, two of them (Seattle and Denver) met in the playoffs. Furthermore, The Jacksonville Jaguars selected the least amount of players with degrees, and well...we all know how that turned out.

Kelly attributes a degree as much more than just proof of what a player is capable of intelligence-wise.

"It's also, what is their commitment? They set goals out for themselves and can they follow through for it? A lot of people can tell you they want to do this, this and this. But look at their accomplishments."

That's some really interesting stuff, and it makes a lot of sense. It's tough to measure something like commitment and drive, but focusing on a goal like graduation for four years and staying committed through the trials, tribulations, and temptations of a college student-athlete to get your degree finished should hold some water, and the Eagles recognize, and appreciate that.

Read the full post from the Wall Street Journal, including a lot of behind the scenes and in depth information behind a handful of their 2014 draft picks and why they chose them based on the "degrees theory", here.

maru, you clearly have a small penis

 

[maru657]

Nobodies knocking higher education or military service but those are not valid excuses for hiring pilots with less experience. There were laws on the books requiring that veterans be given preference during hiring but "Newt" and the boys got rid of them in the 80's. That was also about the same time Newt and fellow draft dodging chickenhawks got rid of the GI bill.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Wrong Boxboy, military training is just another government designed program meant to provide the least common denominator. The military trained pilot can shoot most approaches but the guy who's been doing this for umpteen legs a day in areas of "Boxed Weather" WILL be better at it. That pilot will have shot more approaches, flown far more inclement weather and probably dealt with many more problems than little Herky fresh from flying his single engine scooter for "Sweet Uncle" .

This post alone is so full of stupidity, that it's hard to know where to start.

To YOU, Maru, military training may have been "just another government designed program meant to provide the least common denominator." That's because, as you admit, you were a Vietnam-era draftee. As was shown in your case, it doesn't take much to draft a ground-pounding grunt. Like you said, the least common denominator. They can pretty much start with anyone with four limbs, in decent physical shape, and who fogs a mirror. I guess even you qualified for that. Military flight training, on the other hand, which you continually demonstrate that you know jack squat about, is nothing like that. Yet in your senility, you keep mistaking the two.

And you also pointed out that, "your GI Bill was taken away from you." Bitter and resentful much? I guess that explains your hatred for military pilots, and your continued need to denigrate them. Troops gotta bitch about the Os, whenever they get the chance, right? Your bias is pretty obvious, really.

Shall I point out the stupidity of your "shooting approaches" and "inclement weather" arguments while I'm at it? You know, since 80-90% of what we do now as civilian pilots, boils down to flights in VMC to a single straight-in visual approach. And when the ceiling is low, it's vectors onto the ILS final. Yeah, that's tough flying, all right.

Hey, you just let me know next time you need some more schooling, okay?

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

Hey idiots, The Philadelphia Eagles coach prefers guys with college degrees. Google the Wall Street Journal for the article.

You can ask, what does a college degree have to do with football?

********************, I know some of you mofos are tech challenged.

The Philadelphia Eagles value a college degree over combine numbers. Here's why
Ask Eagles GM Howie Roseman one of the most important traits of successful people across all walks of life and his answer may surprise you, but it's a belief that helped mold the way him and his head coach, Chip Kelly, are shaping the Eagles franchise, starting with the NFL Draft.

"When you look at people who are successful in any profession, it always goes back to college graduates. We found that NFL players are no different." Roseman explained to the Wall Street Journal.

That philosophical light bulb went off when both Roseman and Kelly independently discovered that the most successful NFL teams happen to be the ones with the most college graduates. Kelly first heard of this philosophy when Tony Dungy came to give a talk to his team at Oregon. In the talk, Dungy mentioned that while he was coaching in the 2000's the two teams loaded with college grads (the Colts and the Patriots) dominated the NFL ranks for years.

That was somewhat of a "light bulb moment" for Kelly at the time. As he talked to Dungy more, the former Colts head coach explained that his research showed that players with college degrees were more likely to earn a second NFL contract. Dungy told Kelly that the "guys with degrees have what you're looking for. They are driven."

The Wall Street Journal explains that Roseman was doing similar research before Kelly came on board as the head coach, having him and his front office guys look beyond the height and weight and into the background of the players on the four remaining playoff teams each year. His research showed that of the three teams that took the most fifth-year draft eligible seniors, two of them (Seattle and Denver) met in the playoffs. Furthermore, The Jacksonville Jaguars selected the least amount of players with degrees, and well...we all know how that turned out.

Kelly attributes a degree as much more than just proof of what a player is capable of intelligence-wise.

"It's also, what is their commitment? They set goals out for themselves and can they follow through for it? A lot of people can tell you they want to do this, this and this. But look at their accomplishments."

That's some really interesting stuff, and it makes a lot of sense. It's tough to measure something like commitment and drive, but focusing on a goal like graduation for four years and staying committed through the trials, tribulations, and temptations of a college student-athlete to get your degree finished should hold some water, and the Eagles recognize, and appreciate that.

Read the full post from the Wall Street Journal, including a lot of behind the scenes and in depth information behind a handful of their 2014 draft picks and why they chose them based on the "degrees theory", here.

maru, you clearly have a small penis

Yeah, but the Eagles suck.

Sorry, DCA; had to throw that in as a Patriots fan.

On the other hand, your players only kill dogs; our players kill other people...
Wait,... Is it too soon?

Bubba

 

[pilotyip]

Yip, I don't know you, so I cannot speak to your character. But if your posts here are any indication, it's no mystery why you've had the mediocre jobs you have- poor economies in the 80's left behind a lot of good men who worked well but didn't develop themselves to that next level-
It's harsh but you don't need to advise young people away from higher education. That atmosphere of questioning and challenging each other is invaluable

Haven't we been here before? Yep in college I never worked as hard you, never socialized as well as, never played IM sports as good as you could of, nope none of the benefits you found in college ever flowed to me. Why I was such a looser at graduation I had to go into Navy Flight Training and fly in Vietnam just to get a job. Yea with your hard work you never had to dela with elements of luck and timing. Nope not wavy, in charge of his career from day one.

But I guess all the hard work I did doesn't count. I mean I only graduated first in my class from Primary Flight, made the Captain's list for academic achievement in ground school. Graduated #2 in my class from basic (FCLPS' ate my lunch at first). Graduated first in my class from advanced training, got my first choice of aircraft assignment, the P-3 (for that I was lucky if there had not been any P-3 slots that month I would have been unlucky). I wrote the highest final exam score in the History of the Navy Navigation school, was named VT-29 Student of the Quarter. I was one of two first tour PPC?s to be given my own crew and Aircraft. Graduated first in my class from Officer of Deck Underway School, I passed my reactor Orals on the first try. Qualified OOD (U) in six months, most other candidates took 18-24 months. But I guess I didn?t work very hard and that is why I was not lucky.

Nobody's knocking a degree and certainly not higher education but it has very little to do with flying an airplane.

Wavy this guy gets it.

 

[maru657]

Yep, just a draftee grunt, no degree, but some of your college educated boys bombed us twice. I guess the NVA didn't require degrees for their pilots, they never bombed us once.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Yep, just a draftee grunt, no degree, but some of your college educated boys bombed us twice. I guess the NVA didn't require degrees for their pilots, they never bombed us once.

Wow.

Well, that's sure a great counter-argument to what we were talking about. I guess you sure told me. I don't know how you continue to come up with these stinging zingers!

Bubba

 

[jonjuan]

But I guess all the hard work I did doesn't count. I mean I only graduated first in my class from Primary Flight, made the Captain's list for academic achievement in ground school. Graduated #2 in my class from basic (FCLPS' ate my lunch at first). Graduated first in my class from advanced training, got my first choice of aircraft assignment, the P-3 (for that I was lucky if there had not been any P-3 slots that month I would have been unlucky). I wrote the highest final exam score in the History of the Navy Navigation school, was named VT-29 Student of the Quarter. I was one of two first tour PPC?s to be given my own crew and Aircraft. Graduated first in my class from Officer of Deck Underway School, I passed my reactor Orals on the first try. Qualified OOD (U) in six months, most other candidates took 18-24 months. But I guess I didn?t work very hard and that is why I was not lucky.


Wavy this guy gets it.

Yip, by chance, is your wife's name Paula?

 

[pilotyip]

Yep, just a draftee grunt, no degree, but some of your college educated boys bombed us twice. I guess the NVA didn't require degrees for their pilots, they never bombed us once.

hey back then you didn't need a college degree to be military pilot. They knew it had nothing to do with being good pilot. I flew with them, they were good.

Yip, by chance, is your wife's name Paula?

Nope, should it be? BTW See what you have started with the college thing

 

[DCAA320]

Yeah, but the Eagles suck.

Sorry, DCA; had to throw that in as a Patriots fan.

On the other hand, your players only kill dogs; our players kill other people...
Wait,... Is it too soon?

Bubba

HAHAHAHA

I like to watch Brady throw, he is a good one. We got rid of Vick, Foles will have a good year.


Not too soon. Why a millionaire (hernandez) needed to be all gangster is anyone's guess.

 

[maru657]

Why DC double jointed A, you've hurt my feelings. Must be that sweet college boy enthusiasm. Just remember some half drunk crop duster could have done your job and now days little girls are apparently the best fighter pilots.

 

[DCAA320]

Why DC double jointed A, you've hurt my feelings. Must be that sweet college boy enthusiasm. Just remember some half drunk crop duster could have done your job and now days little girls are apparently the best fighter pilots.

That's not true, it takes some education to hunt submarines, it's not the same as flying a crop duster.