Delta has mid contract improvement TA

[Muskycat]

Yeah but we have standup overnights I hear now.....oh joy!!

You'll have to be senior to hold them. 6hours of rest, not much but 7.5 hours of pay. They won't go junior. So fly under 2 hours each way and get paid 7.5

 

[nonstop]

Wait. CDO's are on the table for Delta?

Combine that with Redeye's and 4 days that pay 21.

Delta 4 days pay as little as 18:OO. But we get to wear hats.

 

[scarlet]

SWA 19:50 TFP for 3 day...4 day at SWA min pay is 26 TFP

CDOs are just like INTL, not great for the body!

CDOS usually 3 on 2 off?

 

[dbrownie]

CDOs suck....

I did them a lot as a newhire. DTW -FNT or DTW- SBN or LAN were fine...

But we had them to EWR and as far away as DFW!

The long ones were unsafe in my opinion.
If they had limits on leg length for example maybe a consideration.

Db

 

[BOX OFFICE]

I came from a regional too, and I can tell you that standups aren't that bad if they're scheduled right. At ASA, standups were, and still are the most senior lines. Very popular with moms who stay home during the day with the kids, then work at night. also people who have a side business. as said above, most people hate them, some that's all they will do.

We really shouldn't complain about this though. With the arrival of the 717s we're taking back more and more flying from the regionals. This is a big part of what they do. We can't have our cake and eat it too. Either we take this flying in house, or we let them keep it. We can't just contract out what we find undesirable, that's what got us in the RJ mess to begin with.

 

[titans10]

We are flying to those cities already. I have done TYS, JAN, cae, and down the list. The will make a lot of our overnights CDO. Cities like chs, jax, Gso,, anything within the 2-2:15 block to block. Why are we surprose to concede anything? Next the we better take a pay cut because that is what the regionals make.

 

[Freebrd]

One of the negatives with CDOs is having maintenance or waiting for a late plane for you to fly your flight. You're still on duty so you can depart anytime. Say you're scheduled out at 2100, have maintenance and depart at 0100. Get to your destination at 0200, hotel at 0230, right back up at around 0430-45 and duty-in at say 0530. If that happens two nights in a row, watch out.

 

[Whydoitry]

Don't you guys do red eyes? I'll take a stand up over a red eye anytime.

 

[dalad]

The fact that this was in FAR 117 makes the whole reg laughable, including the max 16 hour FDP. The MEC needs to send this back. Or we need Memrat to send it back.

 

[Mikes Apartment]

I came from a regional too, and I can tell you that standups aren't that bad if they're scheduled right. At ASA, standups were, and still are the most senior lines. Very popular with moms who stay home during the day with the kids, then work at night. also people who have a side business. as said above, most people hate them, some that's all they will do.

We really shouldn't complain about this though. With the arrival of the 717s we're taking back more and more flying from the regionals. This is a big part of what they do. We can't have our cake and eat it too. Either we take this flying in house, or we let them keep it. We can't just contract out what we find undesirable, that's what got us in the RJ mess to begin with.

You're an idiot. We take our flying back and we do it safely period. Delta is printing money right now and you think we should make concessions? These will not go senior. Rest can be reduced to 3 hours and block can be up to 2 hours. That's any Florida airport from/to ATL. Block ATL-MIA 1:54.
What I'm hearing from my friends from ASA these were not senior at all and they will go to junior Delta pilots on all narrowbody fleets.
ALPAs slogan is "Schedule with Safety" WTF? How is this anything but a huge step backwards in safety at DAL?

 

[BOX OFFICE]

You're an idiot. We take our flying back and we do it safely period. Delta is printing money right now and you think we should make concessions? These will not go senior. Rest can be reduced to 3 hours and block can be up to 2 hours. That's any Florida airport from/to ATL. Block ATL-MIA 1:54.
What I'm hearing from my friends from ASA these were not senior at all and they will go to junior Delta pilots on all narrowbody fleets.
ALPAs slogan is "Schedule with Safety" WTF? How is this anything but a huge step backwards in safety at DAL?

Wow. I'm an idiot. Great argument.

But since you "went there", why is it safe for ASA to be flying DELTA PASSENGERS this way, but not Delta mainline? Double standard much?

And yes, I just called a friend, and "naps" are still way senior at ASA. Like 20+ seniority for CAs and 10+ for FOs to hold a nap line. The reason is because their soft pay is huge over there. 50 hours block, 90 hours pay?

 

[Mikes Apartment]

Wow. I'm an idiot. Great argument.

But since you "went there", why is it safe for ASA to be flying DELTA PASSENGERS this way, but not Delta mainline? Double standard much?

And yes, I just called a friend, and "naps" are still way senior at ASA. Like 20+ seniority for CAs and 10+ for FOs to hold a nap line. The reason is because their soft pay is huge over there. 50 hours block, 90 hours pay?

Did I say it was safe for ASA to do them? I don't think I did. How many Florida destinations does mainline do in FL? How about the Southeast U.S.? It's going to be different and worse than ASA "bend overs" due to the amount of flying and leg length possible under this concession. Do you think Delta pilots should do these because we're getting our flying back from the RJs? I think Delta should find a different way to schedule it. It's going to cost more so what? We can't go backwards anymore in this profession. Now is the time to make positive gains. Shame on you for saying otherwise.

 

[BOX OFFICE]

Did I say it was safe for ASA to do them? I don't think I did. How many Florida destinations does mainline do in FL? How about the Southeast U.S.? It's going to be different and worse than ASA "bend overs" due to the amount of flying and leg length possible under this concession. Do you think Delta pilots should do these because we're getting our flying back from the RJs? I think Delta should find a different way to schedule it. It's going to cost more so what? We can't go backwards anymore in this profession. Now is the time to make positive gains. Shame on you for saying otherwise.

Go ahead and put management over a barrel and watch how fast they find more ways to outsource the flying. Negotiations are a two way street. You're really not very bright are you?

 

[JohnQ]

Go ahead and put management over a barrel and watch how fast they find more ways to outsource the flying. Negotiations are a two way street. You're really not very bright are you?

These are a VERY bad idea. Want to feel like death warmed over and have to pull off the side of the highway on your way home so you don't fall asleep at the wheel? I don't.

The real problem is the fact that the 6 hours is block to block and the hotel rest is reducible. On a nice night with no delays, these will be somewhat decent. It is when there is a lot of IROPS going on where the crews are going to take it in the shorts. How about that? Get to TPA at 0030 (after dodging the thunderstorms that triggered the late arrival in the first place) and have an 0445 pickup! Safe? I think not...

 

[Mikes Apartment]

Go ahead and put management over a barrel and watch how fast they find more ways to outsource the flying. Negotiations are a two way street. You're really not very bright are you?

We can't negotiate safety away like this. We won't tolerate more outsourcing either. It's no longer time for our profession to go backwards. Now is time for improvement in pay and work rules after our lost decade. This TA crosses the line for safety plain and simple. It is unacceptable to me and I hope many more of my fellow DAL pilots.

 

[ROSWELL41]

Hate to say it, but does DALPA roll to every management demand? As an outsider reading these threads, it sure seems so.

 

[waveflyer]

The fact that this was in FAR 117 makes the whole reg laughable, including the max 16 hour FDP. The MEC needs to send this back. Or we need Memrat to send it back.

When it comes to the regs, how could you get rid of them when it's what ups and fedex do all night. You are on duty, the idea isn't to rest in the hotel- it's to rest at home.
Where it gets unsafe is when pilots count on that hotel time and don't get it. Just wait until they ask you to ferry a couple of airplanes when you were supposed to be in the hotel.

The devil is 100% in the details and what your contract says-

 

[waveflyer]

Go ahead and put management over a barrel and watch how fast they find more ways to outsource the flying. Negotiations are a two way street. You're really not very bright are you?

This isn't very bright.

I happen to agree with you on this one, with lots of caution, but MA is right- it's about gains now and you're showing an unfortunate mentality within delta on outsourcing.
Get one thing clear- and I hear you, I really do- but outsourcing didn't happen just bc mainline didn't want to do less desirable flying- in part, but also politics played a big role- ultimately it happened to that level bc the group wasn't strong enough on that subject.

Plain and simple- dalpa allowed it instead of standing firm, and like a $1000 hooker who wakes up ten years later doing it for $10, once mgmt knew dalpa would cross a line they just inched that line farther and farther away from reasonable.

 

[titans10]

Go ahead and put management over a barrel and watch how fast they find more ways to outsource the flying. Negotiations are a two way street. You're really not very bright are you?

What you going to vote yes to pay cut next time. just remember they might outsource more if you don't. We know you will vote for anything put in front of you..

 

[Mikes Apartment]

Looks like the DAL MEC met today and took stand ups completely off the table. We get the pay raises without split duty periods. Sorry Box Office, looks like we don't have to give concessions. Idiot