Delta has mid contract improvement TA

[tailhookah]

The Delta MEC has been working since last summer on a mid contract revision due to the impact of the 117 regs. Last week Delta MEC Chairman released the news to Delta Pilots regarding the TA. Road shows to follow. The improvements are all due to the impact that FAR 117 had on our QOL, International flying, pairing construction and min pay.

Some of the highlights are a 5:15 calendar day rig, a rule making it harder to reroute someone mid pairing along with improvements to international flying rules.

It will eliminate the 19 hour 4 day trips we've seen as a result of FAR 117. Now a 4 day will pay a minimum of 21. The 13:30's will now pay 15:45.

I think it's a good improvement, especially mid contract. Now we don't have to use up any negotiating capital on these items for Contract 16!

Tailhookah

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Yeah but we have standup overnights I hear now.....oh joy!!

 

[GogglesPisano]

Yep. The CDO's/stand-ups/life-span-shorteners are an automatic no-vote for me. I thought I left those behind at my regional.

 

[tailhookah]

Is that the "split duty period" that's mentioned that pays 7:30????

 

[nwaf16dude]

You would not believe how senior stand-ups went at NWA. I never understood it myself. I was very junior on the DC-9 for about 3 years and I only flew one. They are definitely not for me, but some guys love them.

 

[Quack]

IMO stand ups are fine if they are built accordingly. MSP-FAR, ATL-CHS, SLC-DEN. It's when the legs start going over an hour of flying time when they get real narly. Problem is that some people want them, most do not, and they definitely aren't something that you should force people to do. Therein lies the problem.

 

[titans10]

Heard they can be up to 2 hour legs.

 

[tailhookah]

I commute. But if I lived in base I'd do some. 7:30 rig... leave after dinner... home at 9 am. Do 10 for 75 hours... But as a commuter different. Also, as long as they are not built into pairings I'm ok w/ them. I figure they'll go to enough guys who want em for what I described above. You could have a two day trip added in w/ your schedule and get a minimum of 85:30 credit for 12 duty periods.... that's over 7 hours per duty period... I think that's pretty good...

Another perspective. As long as they aren't abused. I do see these coming in place of the 30 hour layovers. Like I said, as long as they don't put these into 2-4 day pairings, I'm ok. They have to be stand alone pairings.

Tail...

 

[titans10]

As a commuter how would you like to pay for 2 hotels if you get 3 in a row. Have you ever down CDO's? A lot of us have. They suck.

 

[nwaf16dude]

Heard they can be up to 2 hour legs.

Block-to-block, not flight time.

 

[titans10]

I know. Not a big difference in my book. Also, they can reduce your rest in hotel. Talk to your rep.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Any delay and your hotel sit gets screwed over and you are not going to rest. Believe me, the way we schedule our jets, by the last flight of the day, you are delayed.

This "win" reeks of the "NO MORE 11 hour three days" (sure because now you will stop out to the west coast for a block of 1310) wooohooooo

 

[waveflyer]

Stand ups suck- but you basically become a ups or fedex pilot for a night-
Just absolutely need good contractual language-
I have a friend on the 190 at usair who did stand ups to Toronto.!
If there's any truth to that, that is ridiculous- customs on 3 hours sleep?
Wow-

From my regional days I know young dads would do them bc it gave them flexibility with the family and they weren't sleeping anyway.
With the Feds coming down on sleep apnea, I don't see this as wise- but that's just me.
The double whammy always seem to be that the stand ups with more rest paid a lot more bc you were on your duty rig. So the short ones not only killed you with short rest they paid the minimum and forced you into sleeping like a wolf in the day when you got back- the ones with 7+ hour rest went senior and were pretty good living since they often paid 8 hours
I didn't mind one here and there- but a line full of them was brutal by the end of the second week
We have to be smarter about the long term consequences of messing with our sleep like that

 

[wms]

As a commuter how would you like to pay for 2 hotels if you get 3 in a row. Have you ever down CDO's? A lot of us have. They suck.

With an early check in and late check out you can pay for one room for the three cdos.

 

[wms]

Stand ups suck- but you basically become a ups or fedex pilot for a night-
Just absolutely need good contractual language-
I have a friend on the 190 at usair who did stand ups to Toronto.!
If there's any truth to that, that is ridiculous- customs on 3 hours sleep?
Wow-

From my regional days I know young dads would do them bc it gave them flexibility with the family and they weren't sleeping anyway.
With the Feds coming down on sleep apnea, I don't see this as wise- but that's just me.
The double whammy always seem to be that the stand ups with more rest paid a lot more bc you were on your duty rig. So the short ones not only killed you with short rest they paid the minimum and forced you into sleeping like a wolf in the day when you got back- the ones with 7+ hour rest went senior and were pretty good living since they often paid 8 hours
I didn't mind one here and there- but a line full of them was brutal by the end of the second week
We have to be smarter about the long term consequences of messing with our sleep like that

We had yul cdos out of Atl and east coast FL out of dfw.

 

[titans10]

With an early check in and late check out you can pay for one room for the three cdos.

Goodie.
Right now I pay for none. Due to the fact I hold commutable lines.

 

[tailhookah]

Good input guys. I'll wait until I see the restrictions on them during the road shows before I make anymore comments. Under the right constraints I would be fine with them. We'll have to wait and see the details I guess.

tail

 

[Quack]

I may get shot for saying this, but if the cdo's are short, you live in base, and they're gonna pay 7:30, I'd say sign me up!

 

[Crash Pad]

From my regional career.

ATL-HSV-DCA 6 hours ATL: That was at ASA in Delta paint.

They go junior, except for a couple guys who enjoy zero adult supervision. You know: no tie, Northface pullover, unshaven, packing a toiletry pack and some cigarettes. Couldn't tell you a single memo in the last ten years, has no idea that you are in contract talks, and is pissed to discover the jepps are missing because of "some BS EFB no one told me about".

Reserve is a real treat. The old two day followed by a standup. The AM reserve call at 3AM to put you to rest for an 8PM show. Classic.

They are dangerous. Sure you may have someone awake 90% of the time but a fire in the cabin on the way out of Montreal would have been a death sentence. A V1 cut on a delayed JAX would be questionable.

By all means go for it. Remember "they will only use 50 seaters on short hall stuff and we have iron clad language"!

 

[redflyer65]

Wait. CDO's are on the table for Delta?

Combine that with Redeye's and 4 days that pay 21, I have to say that doesn't look too appealing (I know Genny's sundae makes up for a lot of this)

I've done CDO's in the past and they suck. Crashpad is right, they typically go junior because of what they do to your body. I've only come across one guy that liked them. He liked to play golf everyday and just stayed awake most of the day. Not sure how well he'd do in an emergency like Crash stated. I find them less than safe.