More 717s for Delta?

[Heavy Set]

I bet GL will be happy to read this. No doubt Anderson at Delta is salivating over these airframes... When will Delta approach Hawaiian for their 717s?

http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/27667-finlands-blue-1-coy-on-b717-replacement-plans

 

[General Lee]

Well, that would be great. I think RA and others in management have figured out that the 717 is a good RJ replacement. The Regionals are having tough times maintaining current schedules due to dwindling pilot numbers, and it will only get worse. DL doesn't have a problem yet getting new pilots, and more 717s combined with fewer frequencies to smaller cities (3 daily 717 flights vs 6 RJ flights) will keep passengers flowing into DL hubs with the same number of seats. Genius move, and I hope DL goes after these particular planes, and continues to try to get as many 717s as possible. The combination of expensive RJs and fewer pilots available to fly them is a problem, and more 717s could definitely be a solution. Maybe some new C-series planes at mainline could replace 70 seaters next.(CR7s)



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Jim]

When will Delta approach Hawaiian for their 717s?

http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/27667-finlands-blue-1-coy-on-b717-replacement-plans

They won't get them. We've never had a better plane for inter-island.

 

[Mercyful Fate]

Well, that would be great. I think RA and others in management have figured out that the 717 is a good RJ replacement. The Regionals are having tough times maintaining current schedules due to dwindling pilot numbers, and it will only get worse. DL doesn't have a problem yet getting new pilots, and more 717s combined with fewer frequencies to smaller cities (3 daily 717 flights vs 6 RJ flights) will keep passengers flowing into DL hubs with the same number of seats. Genius move, and I hope DL goes after these particular planes, and continues to try to get as many 717s as possible. The combination of expensive RJs and fewer pilots available to fly them is a problem, and more 717s could definitely be a solution. Maybe some new C-series planes at mainline could replace 70 seaters next.(CR7s)



Bye Bye---General Lee

Go tell that to marketing. With this kind of thinking why not just run one 757 into a smaller market once a day and cover most it. Just because you can cover seats, doesn't mean its a good idea to reduce schedules. Shocked with your vast knowledge you didn't already know that.

 

[General Lee]

Go tell that to marketing. With this kind of thinking why not just run one 757 into a smaller market once a day and cover most it. Just because you can cover seats, doesn't mean its a good idea to reduce schedules. Shocked with your vast knowledge you didn't already know that.

Uhhhhhh, look what the 717s are doing now. Expect that to continue. Cities that were once flown to by mainline 727s and 737s and were handed to the regionals after 9-11 and BK are coming back to mainline. It's Fannnnntastic!



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Mercyful Fate]

Uhhhhhh, look what the 717s are doing now. Expect that to continue. Cities that were once flown to by mainline 727s and 737s and were handed to the regionals after 9-11 and BK are coming back to mainline. It's Fannnnntastic!



Bye Bye---General Lee

Yea big whoop. Delta also back in the day had 737 and 727 into small Montana markets. Don't use that as an example to make your point. They will shuffle these 717's in and out of different markets from Atlanta every schedule rotation, and those pesky CRJs will still be around. And you will still be pretending to be a pilot as you sit at your desk at Delta doing crew scheduling or whatever the hell you really do there.

 

[General Lee]

Yea big whoop. Delta also back in the day had 737 and 727 into small Montana markets. Don't use that as an example to make your point. They will shuffle these 717's in and out of different markets from Atlanta every schedule rotation, and those pesky CRJs will still be around. And you will still be pretending to be a pilot as you sit at your desk at Delta doing crew scheduling or whatever the hell you really do there.

Uhhhh, look at this Summer from SLC to BZN, for example. DL I believe has 2 319s (actually a 319 and a 320, in AUG) between the cities plus some RJs, a lot better than all RJs. (And a 319 from SLC to BIL) Also, since the merger, not all connections to Montana need to be in SLC. From MSP there are 319s every Summer to FCA, BIL, BZN, and probably GTF. The RJs from SLC mean SLC isn't the only way to get pax to Montana. There are even nonstops from ATL to BZN and FCA. Amazing! (A full 717 won't make it nonstop, but a 319 will). Loads during the Winter may necessitate an RJ, but as qualified pilots leave the Regionals and head for the big 3 and the LCCs, it will be tougher to man those flights, and the legacies will have to fill in. Inefficient RJs and a serious shortage of pilots. Those two will accelerate the parking of RJs. You know that is true Percy.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[livin'thesim]

Here is the part I can never figure out:

I assume that it costs more to add a 717 to mainline than it would to increase the payments to the regional vendors to ensure that flights are covered.

Now, it makes sense if mainline wants more direct control over the use of the airframes, but I can't figure out why it would not be cheaper to just bump up the fees paid to the regionals that to add - as GL put it - and RJ replacement to mainline.

What am I missing from a finance standpoint here?

Is it that regional management is simply not competent at any price mainline is willing to pay?

 

[Mercyful Fate]

Uhhhh, look at this Summer from SLC to BZN, for example. DL I believe has 2 319s (actually a 319 and a 320, in AUG) between the cities plus some RJs, a lot better than all RJs. (And a 319 from SLC to BIL) Also, since the merger, not all connections to Montana need to be in SLC. From MSP there are 319s every Summer to FCA, BIL, BZN, and probably GTF. The RJs from SLC mean SLC isn't the only way to get pax to Montana. There are even nonstops from ATL to BZN and FCA. Amazing! (A full 717 won't make it nonstop, but a 319 will). Loads during the Winter may necessitate an RJ, but as qualified pilots leave the Regionals and head for the big 3 and the LCCs, it will be tougher to man those flights, and the legacies will have to fill in. Inefficient RJs and a serious shortage of pilots. Those two will accelerate the parking of RJs. You know that is true Percy.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Wow such smarts!! Adding more seats to one round trip to meet the demand of summer travel, and putting in direct flights for certain peak times. This is airline business 101, and not anything new. You should be freakin' Delta's CEO with these smarts. Psssssst, all this drivel you just spilled has ZERO to do with your 717 hard on you are sporting.

 

[madjack]

DL is doing everything right it seems....of the big 3 it has to be the top choice for those pilots seeking a career in the majors...anecdotally, on the van, I have seen HAPPY DL in-flight crews! I have also talked with ALaska crews that were worried about DL's inroads in it's SEA fortress hub...SWA will never be a threat to DL in ATL, this is reinforced every time I taxi past the vast DL maint facility in ATL...hopefully the DL pilots will be able to achieve pre bankruptcy pay and benefits...

 

[Ty Webb]

DL is doing everything right it seems....of the big 3 it has to be the top choice for those pilots seeking a career in the majors...anecdotally, on the van, I have seen HAPPY DL in-flight crews! I have also talked with ALaska crews that were worried about DL's inroads in it's SEA fortress hub...SWA will never be a threat to DL in ATL, this is reinforced every time I taxi past the vast DL maint facility in ATL...hopefully the DL pilots will be able to achieve pre bankruptcy pay and benefits...

Wow, this is the longest AND most sensible post you have ever written, MJ. Glad to see they finally got your meds right! Now, about that SLI . . . .

 

[GogglesPisano]

Go tell that to marketing. With this kind of thinking why not just run one 757 into a smaller market once a day and cover most it. Just because you can cover seats, doesn't mean its a good idea to reduce schedules. Shocked with your vast knowledge you didn't already know that.

You really think you're smarter at running an airline than Richard Anderson? Really?

 

[Scoot 11]

You really think you're smarter at running an airline than Richard Anderson? Really?

Please don't feed the troll!
It's just the same kid arguing with himself. Even negative attention is still attention

 

[Mercyful Fate]

You really think you're smarter at running an airline than Richard Anderson? Really?

Pay attention, and read the posts again. You have this ability to totally go off into left field about what is actually being discussed.

 

[Mercyful Fate]

Please don't feed the troll!
It's just the same kid arguing with himself. Even negative attention is still attention

Thanks for joining in Mr Helper.

 

[General Lee]

Wow such smarts!! Adding more seats to one round trip to meet the demand of summer travel, and putting in direct flights for certain peak times. This is airline business 101, and not anything new. You should be freakin' Delta's CEO with these smarts. Psssssst, all this drivel you just spilled has ZERO to do with your 717 hard on you are sporting.

Dingle....meet Berry....

Too bad you're not invited.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[GogglesPisano]

Pay attention, and read the posts again. You have this ability to totally go off into left field about what is actually being discussed.

It's plainly obvious. You think you can run an airline better than RA. You think you can better manage a network than Delta. Good luck with that. Hope it works out for you.

 

[Mercyful Fate]

It's plainly obvious. You think you can run an airline better than RA. You think you can better manage a network than Delta. Good luck with that. Hope it works out for you.

Wow, and I thought you were one of the smarter ones around here. So much for that.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Wow, and I thought you were one of the smarter ones around here. So much for that.

I'm heartbroken. One more post and I'll officially be breaking the cardinal rule of the internet, so .... bye bye.

 

[Mercyful Fate]

I'm heartbroken. One more post and I'll officially be breaking the cardinal rule of the internet, so .... bye bye.

Make a couple of dumb ass comments, tuck tail and run. Later!

 

[skywiz]

Well, that would be great. I think RA and others in management have figured out that the 717 is a good RJ replacement. The Regionals are having tough times maintaining current schedules due to dwindling pilot numbers, and it will only get worse. DL doesn't have a problem yet getting new pilots, and more 717s combined with fewer frequencies to smaller cities (3 daily 717 flights vs 6 RJ flights) will keep passengers flowing into DL hubs with the same number of seats. Genius move, and I hope DL goes after these particular planes, and continues to try to get as many 717s as possible. The combination of expensive RJs and fewer pilots available to fly them is a problem, and more 717s could definitely be a solution. Maybe some new C-series planes at mainline could replace 70 seaters next.(CR7s)



Bye Bye---General Lee

What about the Emb-190?

 

[General Lee]

What about the Emb-190?

I would think they have looked at the product via some of the DCI E170s/175s. But, the aquistion costs of the current 88 were a great lease deal via SWA paying for the refurb and new paint. Now that DL will get at least 88 of them, they may just go for more, and it appears airlines like Blue1 may be interested in replacing theirs. Everyone wins if the planes don't get parked for good, but they have to make sense and are able to produce profits. If you only had 9 total, it might be more expensive to store parts etc. Delta won't have that problem.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Redtailer]

Any RJ under 70 seats will be a beer can in about 5-7 years. You guys have got to pay attention.

As for the costing the segment costs for the CRJ and the DC9 were identical. So DL could put 50 seats or 125 seats on the same segment for the same price. The ONLY reason the 50 seaters are still being used is due to the contracts that are still in place. Make no mistake they are gone at the first opportunity.

The 717 is an RJ replacement without a doubt. I can't say that the sector costs are that much more, but given the reliability issues of the contract carriers DL is no longer gambling on them. Period. I find it amazing that they are still utilizing them for the EMB-175s. So DL will never pay the contract carriers more money for what they can do better at the same costs. That's called smart management opposed to trying to whipsaw pilot groups.

 

[Scoot 11]

Make a couple of dumb ass comments, tuck tail and run. Later!

As opposed to 2158? Piss of kid you're annoying!

 

[Mercyful Fate]

As opposed to 2158? Piss of kid you're annoying!

Hey you dumb dildo, if you don't like my comments

1) stop commenting on them
2) put me on ignore

And also, when attempting to insult someone, please use correct grammar. Piss of kid? Freaking numbskull

 

[Scoot 11]

Hey you dumb dildo, if you don't like my comments

1) stop commenting on them
2) put me on ignore

And also, when attempting to insult someone, please use correct grammar. Piss of kid? Freaking numbskull

Well done pecker head! You finally got the "o" in off, JACKOFF!
Get back to arguing and playing with yourself, you've become quite good at it. And so have you!

 

[Mercyful Fate]

Well done pecker head! You finally got the "o" in off, JACKOFF!
Get back to arguing and playing with yourself, you've become quite good at it. And so have you!

Still responding to my posts?

 

[xjhawk]

crj and the dc-9 costs the same?
So maybe fuel would be the same per pax?
Or maybe you are talking about the pilots cost? I think not
Or maybe that the DC-9's were paid for and the CRJ 2's were not? If that were the case, I think the wholly owned crj200's would have been parked all at once and the DC9's would have been kept around for longer. Under that logic, then for the last 15 years Delta and every major has been scrambling to use something that actually costs more than what they have in house? Once again, I think not.

I think the switch to bigger aircraft has a lot more to do with the knowledge that Delta knows that they will not be able to staff the 50 seaters given the future (next 5 years) ahead of us at the regionals. There just are no pilots in the education system because they are not willing to rack up $100k of debt they cannot pay back and cannot default on. Every First Officer at Endeavor or any other regional that has 5-7 years as an FO should be on every message board accessed by future aviation college kids and tell them what its like to pay back loans at the rates they are getting paid. That is the problem. Not inefficient crj 200's. I think its better to say?..it makes more financial sense to put larger AC on routes for reliability and higher profitability (which brings in more factors I will ignore).

j

 

[General Lee]

crj and the dc-9 costs the same?
So maybe fuel would be the same per pax?
Or maybe you are talking about the pilots cost? I think not
Or maybe that the DC-9's were paid for and the CRJ 2's were not? If that were the case, I think the wholly owned crj200's would have been parked all at once and the DC9's would have been kept around for longer. Under that logic, then for the last 15 years Delta and every major has been scrambling to use something that actually costs more than what they have in house? Once again, I think not.

I think the switch to bigger aircraft has a lot more to do with the knowledge that Delta knows that they will not be able to staff the 50 seaters given the future (next 5 years) ahead of us at the regionals. There just are no pilots in the education system because they are not willing to rack up $100k of debt they cannot pay back and cannot default on. Every First Officer at Endeavor or any other regional that has 5-7 years as an FO should be on every message board accessed by future aviation college kids and tell them what its like to pay back loans at the rates they are getting paid. That is the problem. Not inefficient crj 200's. I think its better to say?..it makes more financial sense to put larger AC on routes for reliability and higher profitability (which brings in more factors I will ignore).

j

DL isn't having problems recruiting new pilots, and likely won't for years. I think it's a combination of two problems, inefficient 50 seaters and potential for fewer available pilots down the road, or eventually. That's where the 88 717s and any other 717s they can find will come in. They can take the place of two RJ flights and employ people who want to be there, flying to cities that 76 seaters or even current 50 seaters fly to. DL would have direct oversight over the training of the employees, and adherence to the brand standards.


But, there will be huge retirements at all 3 legacies, and that alone will take 15,000 pilots from the Military (fewer pilots out there), LCCs, and the Regionals. That alone will accelerate RJ parking, not to mention the lack of pilots coming from places like UND and Riddle.

I think anyone with any Jet PIC will have a pick of their choice of Legacies eventually. Then pilots with any jet time will be next. My advice to any RJ pilot who might want to go to a legacy and who feels stuck at a Regional with current stagnation or downsizing and lack of an upgrade available, go to a LCC. The Legacies will probably poach pilots from them too.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Mercyful Fate]

DL isn't having problems recruiting new pilots, and likely won't for years. I think it's a combination of two problems, inefficient 50 seaters and potential for fewer available pilots down the road, or eventually. That's where the 88 717s and any other 717s they can find will come in. They can take the place of two RJ flights and employ people who want to be there, flying to cities that 76 seaters or even current 50 seaters fly to. DL would have direct oversight over the training of the employees, and adherence to the brand standards.


But, there will be huge retirements at all 3 legacies, and that alone will take 15,000 pilots from the Military (fewer pilots out there), LCCs, and the Regionals. That alone will accelerate RJ parking, not to mention the lack of pilots coming from places like UND and Riddle.

I think anyone with any Jet PIC will have a pick of their choice of Legacies eventually. Then pilots with any jet time will be next. My advice to any RJ pilot who might want to go to a legacy and who feels stuck at a Regional with current stagnation or downsizing and lack of an upgrade available, go to a LCC. The Legacies will probably poach pilots from them too.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Whoa, wait...Delta is getting 88 717's?