Delta 717 problems?

[race#53]

[FONT=ARIAL,]I flew my first DL B712 this morning from ATL-LIT (N929AT) and we had a maintenance delay in our departure due to a 'minor maintenance delay.' Since this was only the 5th revenue flight of this plane in DL colors, I didn't think much of it.... however, that same ship is coming back to LIT and flying me LIT-ATL later today and it has now had another maintenance delay in Atlanta.

I spoke to the red-coat here in LIT and she said that their LIT-ATL flights are now almost all B712 and they've been having lots of maintenance issues with the plane, requiring B752s and A320s to come in make up the slack.

Since all of the planes flew for a long time in FL colors, it does seem odd that DL may be having these issues. Does anyone have insight to the troubles and their ultimate resolution?[/FONT]

 

[redflyer65]

Who didn't see that coming? I think the General has been all excited about taking 88 of these things.

Enjoy. And thanks for the help!

 

[dalad]

[FONT=ARIAL,]I flew my first DL B712 this morning from ATL-LIT (N929AT) and we had a maintenance delay in our departure due to a 'minor maintenance delay.' Since this was only the 5th revenue flight of this plane in DL colors, I didn't think much of it.... however, that same ship is coming back to LIT and flying me LIT-ATL later today and it has now had another maintenance delay in Atlanta.

I spoke to the red-coat here in LIT and she said that their LIT-ATL flights are now almost all B712 and they've been having lots of maintenance issues with the plane, requiring B752s and A320s to come in make up the slack.

Since all of the planes flew for a long time in FL colors, it does seem odd that DL may be having these issues. Does anyone have insight to the troubles and their ultimate resolution?[/FONT]

It's not all maintenance, part of it is the delivery rate is behind schedule. They are using 320's and 757's to fill the schedule that has been loaded into the system for a while.

 

[dalad]

Who didn't see that coming? I think the General has been all excited about taking 88 of these things.

Enjoy. And thanks for the help!

The airplane is doing just fine.

 

[freightdogfred]

Various minor glitches arise that some crews new to the plane are prob a little unnerved by, EAD messages when the EPR is shutoff, etc. It's by far the most reliable airplane I've been associated with, in 11 years I think I've only had 4-5 instances of something that could not be reset or deferred.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Yeah, leave it to a WN pilot to comment on an aircraft he has absolutely no knowledge of.

That's the airplane that made FL what it is and why GK and Co had to buy us. I can see why you'd think it was a POS.

Keep in mind, DL learned a valuable lesson when they sold an airplane they didn't want to the local competition. Unfortunately, learning from the past is not in human nature.

 

[canyonblue]

That's the airplane that made FL what it is and why GK and Co had to buy us.

He wanted to sell 88 airplane to Delta so he bought AirTran? Many believe that the 717 and the elimination of a competitor to both Delta and Southwest set up a scheme so huge it would make your head spin. It reminds me of Mr. X from JFK:

"Well that's the real question, isn't it? Why? The how and the who is just scenery for the public. Delta, Southwest, Atlanta, the 717's. Keeps 'em guessing like some kind of parlor game, prevents 'em from asking the most important question, why? Why was AirTran aquired? Who benefited? Who has the power to cover it up? Who?"

 

[freightdogfred]

He wanted to sell 88 airplane to Delta so he bought AirTran? Many believe that the 717 and the elimination of a competitor to both Delta and Southwest set up a scheme so huge it would make your head spin. It reminds me of Mr. X from JFK:

"Well that's the real question, isn't it? Why? The how and the who is just scenery for the public. Delta, Southwest, Atlanta, the 717's. Keeps 'em guessing like some kind of parlor game, prevents 'em from asking the most important question, why? Why was AirTran aquired? Who benefited? Who has the power to cover it up? Who?"

GK bought FL to get rid of a very able competitor. I personally believe he made a bad decision to get rid of the 717, as it seems to fit nicely on the WN routes that have lighter loads, like ORF and BDL. I've heard his decision was based on advice from WN MX poobahs who advised him the RR BR715 motors were unreliable, which initially were somewhat accurate. Only GK knows for sure Those problems have been corrected and FL ontime performance and completions used to be at the top. I think the happiest guy on this merg.er is Richard Anderson, he got a good deal on 88 airplanes and WN's drawdown in ATL has allowed for much higher yields in markets that FL no longer serves such as ATL-MEM, ATL-CLT, ATL-PNS to name a few

 

[StopNTSing]

Yeah, leave it to a WN pilot to comment on an aircraft he has absolutely no knowledge of.

That's the airplane that made FL what it is and why GK and Co had to buy us. I can see why you'd think it was a POS.

Keep in mind, DL learned a valuable lesson when they sold an airplane they didn't want to the local competition. Unfortunately, learning from the past is not in human nature.

If it was so awesome, why were so few built? If it was the airplane that made FL into what it was, why did they stop buying 'em and instead opt for...wait for it...737s!

Can we all just agree that smart people on both sides of the table hammered out this deal and that it is a win-win for SWA and Delta? "Fleet Commonality" is obviously not even in Delta's vocabulary, but it is a cornerstone of SWA's business model. Not introducing a second narrow-body fleet type is saving SWA huge sums of money. Finding a readily-available mainline aircraft to replace 50-seat RJ flying will save Delta huge sums of money. Everybody wins! :beer:

P.S. The ATL is still very much a work-in-progress for SWA. Wait another year or two to see it in it's final form (there will still be room for both airlines. BTW)

 

[redflyer65]

GK bought FL to get rid of a very able competitor. I personally believe he made a bad decision to get rid of the 717, as it seems to fit nicely on the WN routes that have lighter loads, like ORF and BDL. I've heard his decision was based on advice from WN MX poobahs who advised him the RR BR715 motors were unreliable, which initially were somewhat accurate. Only GK knows for sure Those problems have been corrected and FL ontime performance and completions used to be at the top. I think the happiest guy on this merg.er is Richard Anderson, he got a good deal on 88 airplanes and WN's drawdown in ATL has allowed for much higher yields in markets that FL no longer serves such as ATL-MEM, ATL-CLT, ATL-PNS to name a few

I think it was a great decision. A savings of over 300 million every year going forward. One fleet type, with one sim, one set of parts has served SW very well for 40 years.

 

[Just thinking]

"if it was so awesome, why were so few built? If it was the airplane that made FL into what it was, why did they stop buying 'em and instead opt for...wait for it...737s!"........

Boeing actively marketed the 717 to a number of large airlines, including Lufthansa and Northwest (who already operated a large fleet of DC-9 aircraft). Boeing also studied a stretched, higher-capacity version of the 717, to have been called 717-300, but decided against proceeding with the new model, fearing that it would encroach on the company's 737-700 model. Production of the original 717 continued. Boeing continued to believe that the 100-passenger market would be lucrative enough to support both the 717 and the 737-600, the smallest of the Next-Generation 737 series. While the aircraft were similar in overall size, the 737-600 was better suited to long-distance routes, while the lighter 717 was more efficient on shorter, regional routes.

The 717 is a great aircraft. Delta will be very happy with the proper placement in its route structure.

I would venture to bet that many SWA stations that have been slashed in service frequency would have been more than happy to have 717's operating. Many millions of dollars have been spent to build up these routes only to have them cut to the bone.
Flattish? Shrink to profitability? 15% ROIC?

Net gain for aircraft deliveries will be a (-20) aircraft for the year.

 

[redflyer65]

With what, 600 orders on the book after that? Just horrible.

 

[General Lee]

Who didn't see that coming? I think the General has been all excited about taking 88 of these things.

Enjoy. And thanks for the help!

600 new Capt positions vs certain stagnation at your airline. Ummmm Yeeeaahhh....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I think it was a great decision. A savings of over 300 million every year going forward. One fleet type, with one sim, one set of parts has served SW very well for 40 years.

Well, your airline is paying for the refurb, which includes engine work and a C Check I believe? Initially there was a problem with seats in the Exit row, but that was cleared up. They are probably nicer than your old -300s....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

"if it was so awesome, why were so few built? If it was the airplane that made FL into what it was, why did they stop buying 'em and instead opt for...wait for it...737s!"........

Boeing actively marketed the 717 to a number of large airlines, including Lufthansa and Northwest (who already operated a large fleet of DC-9 aircraft). Boeing also studied a stretched, higher-capacity version of the 717, to have been called 717-300, but decided against proceeding with the new model, fearing that it would encroach on the company's 737-700 model. Production of the original 717 continued. Boeing continued to believe that the 100-passenger market would be lucrative enough to support both the 717 and the 737-600, the smallest of the Next-Generation 737 series. While the aircraft were similar in overall size, the 737-600 was better suited to long-distance routes, while the lighter 717 was more efficient on shorter, regional routes.

The 717 is a great aircraft. Delta will be very happy with the proper placement in its route structure.

I would venture to bet that many SWA stations that have been slashed in service frequency would have been more than happy to have 717's operating. Many millions of dollars have been spent to build up these routes only to have them cut to the bone.
Flattish? Shrink to profitability? 15% ROIC?

Net gain for aircraft deliveries will be a (-20) aircraft for the year.

And SWA cut 17 cities from the AT map. I hear guys really like it, but the FMS takes a little while getting used to. If they give you a new Sid or Star it can be a cluster trying to do it. (?). I'm sure things will get smoother as more appear. Delta will have +30 airplanes this year compared to last.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[tankerhead]

Lowly trannies could tickle that orphan's box just fine...you Skygod admirals should have no trouble adjusting.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

If it was so awesome, why were so few built? If it was the airplane that made FL into what it was, why did they stop buying 'em and instead opt for...wait for it...737s!

Can we all just agree that smart people on both sides of the table hammered out this deal and that it is a win-win for SWA and Delta? "Fleet Commonality" is obviously not even in Delta's vocabulary, but it is a cornerstone of SWA's business model. Not introducing a second narrow-body fleet type is saving SWA huge sums of money. Finding a readily-available mainline aircraft to replace 50-seat RJ flying will save Delta huge sums of money. Everybody wins! :beer:

P.S. The ATL is still very much a work-in-progress for SWA. Wait another year or two to see it in it's final form (there will still be room for both airlines. BTW)

We were the launch customer. Boeing decided to stop building them. We went over seas to get more after we started taking the 73's. They worked for us and was the airplane that took us from 32 DC9's and a handful of 73 200's to a 140 fleet airline that was WN's biggest low cost competition.

Somebodies going to have to draw out on a white board how this is a good deal for WN but I'll take your word for it.

DL won't have a bigger competitor in ATL for some time, maybe not in my lifetime than FL. That's just not how WN has ever done things. Look out Silver Comet field, WN may look to build an international terminal there, ala HOU.

 

[HowardBorden]

They worked for us and was the airplane that took us from 32 DC9's and a handful of 73 200's to a 140 fleet airline that was WN's biggest low cost competition.

Somebodies going to have to draw out on a white board how this is a good deal for WN but I'll take your word for it.

They worked for us and was the airplane that took us from 32 DC9's and a handful of 73 200's to a 140 fleet airline that was WN's biggest low cost competition.

Yes, but AirTran was a hub and spoke airline, SWA is not.

Somebodies going to have to draw out on a white board how this is a good deal for WN but I'll take your word for it.

Here it is straight from the CEO's mouth, sorry but I can't put it on a white board.

Gary Kelly. "Replacing 717 flying with 737s is expected to significantly benefit our financial results once the transition is complete, and better supports our strategic and financial goals."
"The Company's annual pre-tax results are expected to benefit by approximately $200 million, after all Boeing 717s are transitioned to Delta and replaced with Boeing 737 flying."

 

[Just thinking]

"but AirTran was a hub and spoke airline, SWA is not."............
Yeah right. Mini hubs abound with mega hubs at the bases.
Stop over flight plan with customers on board for two to three stops to get to their destination.
Hard to have a catastrophic melt down like MDW if it is not a hub. If all you do is point point how in the world could your baggage handling be so dismal? (Because you are not point to point.)

Many a trip started in ATL and did not return util the last day.

 

[General Lee]

From another forum:


Update as of 29JAN14: DELTA Plans New Domestic Boeing 717 Markets in S14
by JL
Update at 0600GMT 29JAN14

As per 29JAN14 GDS timetable/inventory display, DELTA has added additional routes to be operated by Boeing 717 in Summer 2014 season. Planned new Boeing 717 markets as follow.
Atlanta ? Abilene 1 daily (01APR14 ? 30APR14)
Atlanta ? Gainesville 1 daily (01APR14 ? 04JUN14)
Atlanta ? Grand Rapids 1 daily (01APR14 ? 01MAY14)
Atlanta ? Memphis 1 weekly (05APR14 ? 26APR14)
Atlanta ? Mobile 2 daily (01APR14 ? 04JUN14)
Atlanta ? Myrtle Beach 2 daily (eff 01APR14; up to 3 daily in May 2014; 1 daily from 05JUN14)
Detroit ? Green Bay 2 daily (01APR14 ? 01MAY14)
Detroit ? Kansas City 6 weekly (01APR14 ? 30APR14)
Previously planned new Boeing 717 Markets in Summer 2014:
Atlanta ? Chicago Midway Up to 4 daily (eff 01APR14)
Atlanta ? Fayetteville AR 1 daily (eff 01APR14)
Atlanta ? Houston Intercontinental Up to 2 daily (01APR14 ? 04JUN14)
Atlanta ? Dallas Love Field 6 daily (eff 13OCT14)
Detroit ? Philadelphia 1 daily (01APR14 ? 30APR14)


I like the 6 daily 717s to Dallas Love....



Bye Bye---General Lee