B777 Captains

[bafanguy]

This ad has just a little air of desperation to it compared to a lot of other ads for expats. 80 B777 captains and 8 TRIs ? Fun to watch...

http://www.latestpilotjobs.com/jobs/view/id/3141.html

A little update: shook the bushes a bit and found out this might be Jet Airways. Considering DL has 179 B777 captains in ATL, 80 + 8 for Jet is pretty ambitious.

 

[atpcliff]

It does sound like Jet...because of their new deal with Etihad...based in AUH. They are also hiring JFK based 777 captains...

 

[frank rizzo]

Yea it's Jet Airways don't waste your time, Jet airways and all the other head hunters are advertising paid recurrent training is provided by Jet. however that is a lie and misleading the contract they offer you states you have to go to a TRTO of your choice and pay out of pocket for the recurrent, airfare, hotel etc. Then only after you are on the line and checked out do they reimburse you. It's a pay to fly outfit. Also no business class tickets either its all standby coach tickets just as bad as the Chinese carriers that are hiring.

 

[bafanguy]

Frank Rizzo,

Do you think this particular offer might be attractive to US expats current on the airplane and now living in/commuting to a foreign base ? The prospect of a JFK or ORD base might be attractive since it puts them back on US soil, closer to family ?

I have no idea how many Americans might be in that position.

Each individual's circumstances and priorities are different.

As for the issue of getting current, I can see where people might be a little hesitant.

 

[macdu]

I don't know of any Chinese carriers that are pay to play....some will take you without the type rating and cover all costs. But you better pass. But I think that is a fair gamble.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

I don't know of any Chinese carriers that are pay to play....some will take you without the type rating and cover all costs. But you better pass. But I think that is a fair gamble.

Not PTP...., but most do require that you get your type if you are coming as a DEC. Although they would enter into a bond situation if you negotiate it.

 

[BuckMurdock1]

Wow- $11k/month to be a 777 CA?! I understand it's supposedly 'tax free', but seems a bit low. I'm grossing $9900/mo at min resv guarantee as a 4th yr A-320 CA and my pay is 2nd-lowest in US airline industry (behind Airways) for my equipment. Something tells me they make you work your A*S off for that $11k as well. As for the 'loyalty bonus'..is it really paid, or are you screwed out of it somehow?

I've heard from many ex expats who've worked in China that they screw you out of $$ any chance they get.

Not sure if true nowadays...

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Wow- $11k/month to be a 777 CA?! I understand it's supposedly 'tax free', but seems a bit low..

There is an additional compensation of an extra $2,000/ month paid in a yearly basis, so that is $13,000/ month @80 hours for a rate of $162.5/hour. If you take DAL highest rate @255/ hour and take away state and federal taxes, and your hourly rate will be what. Around $175 or so? And that is after you reach the captains position with over 12 years invested in the company.

This salary package will be net with taxes paid in the domicile country at a higher rate than in the US so you will be filing under the double taxation condition, and walking through the door on day one, not after what? 18 years to the left seat of a T7 at DAL? when you see it that way! it is a pretty competitive salary package.

Disclaimer...., before the idiosy starts! I'm NOT in any way saying that this is an alternative to a career at ANY major in the US, if you are young enough to start at a legacy and are lucky enough to get some seniority under your belt, that is the most secure and profitable way to go. But I can also see how some guys would be interested in jumping to the opportunity of some of these reverse roster contracts that are popping up here and there...!

 

[BuckMurdock1]

There is an additional compensation of an extra $2,000/ month paid in a yearly basis, so that is $13,000/ month @80 hours for a rate of $162.5/hour. If you take DAL highest rate @255/ hour and take away state and federal taxes, and your hourly rate will be what. Around $175 or so? And that is after you reach the captains position with over 12 years invested in the company.

This salary package will be net with taxes paid in the domicile country at a higher rate than in the US so you will be filing under the double taxation condition, and walking through the door on day one, not after what? 18 years to the left seat of a T7 at DAL? when you see it that way! it is a pretty competitive salary package.

Disclaimer...., before the idiosy starts! I'm NOT in any way saying that this is an alternative to a career at ANY major in the US, if you are young enough to start at a legacy and are lucky enough to get some seniority under your belt, that is the most secure and profitable way to go. But I can also see how some guys would be interested in jumping to the opportunity of some of these reverse roster contracts that are popping up here and there...!

I guess it is competitive if you put it that way. Obviously you must be an expat working in Asia under contract; what is the landscape like nowadays in dealing with Asian contract companies and/or airlines? Specifically Chinese? Like I said; I've heard of the reputation that they often renege on promises. True? Not?

 

[Dumb Pilot]

The contract agency is very important when making a decision, specially in China, not all the companies are the same though, there are a few that have a not so bad reputation let's say LOL! As everything in aviation, research is a must.....!

 

[macdu]

I guess it is competitive if you put it that way. Obviously you must be an expat working in Asia under contract; what is the landscape like nowadays in dealing with Asian contract companies and/or airlines? Specifically Chinese? Like I said; I've heard of the reputation that they often renege on promises. True? Not?

Everything I have been promised has been delivered. But they don't make a lot of promises either. I have been "fairly" treated here in almost four years now. I will say I don't feel as special as I did early in the job though. More overnights and more routes are open to foreigner captains so more flying.

It's not so much the contract companies that you need to be careful of in my opinion as the airline itself. Research what it's like living and working with the airline. That is your day to day life not the agency. I have very minimal contact with my agency. I hear from them once a month to verify my invoice, that's it.

The few bad experiences I have heard about are always regretful to hear but invariably involve the pilot expecting more than was ever offered in a particular circumstance. On the other and I can verify my airline going beyond what I would have guessed they provide to the guy to get him on with the company. Company paid medical procedures, hotels, extra sim time to get the guy on board. That's MORE than a carrier back home would do. Now, do I have a lot to complain about.....yes. I flew a hundred hours last month and will this month too. It's wearing me out. But I have vacation in December.
If you are thinking about China it can be a fun and exciting place but it definitely takes a mental shift big time. Especially coming from a mainline U.S. carrier with all the work rules, union, etc.

Look at the agents
Top Flight
WASINC
VORholdings
And there's three or more others I can't think of

 

[Dumb Pilot]

It's not so much the contract companies that you need to be careful of in my opinion as the airline itself. Research what it's like living and working with the airline. That is your day to day life not the agency. I have very minimal contact with my agency. I hear from them once a month to verify my invoice, that's it.

You are of course correct, your contact with the agency will be minimal once you do get hired and that doesn't apply only to China, it's all contract jobs.
Let me clarify: satisfaction with getting what you signed for on the contract seems to be related to the agency, some will do whatever it takes to get people through the door and once you are there it is virtually impossible to change agencies or airlines (China, I mean) some agencies will do a much better job at preparing you for what's to come in terms of lifestyle and the experience at work, if a pilot is better informed then the job satisfaction seems to be higher.....!
PARC has a good reputation as an agency although their medical coverage in the US is not the best. Research the airline and most importantly talk to the pilots, find the local watering hole and a couple of drinks with the boys will give you a wealth of information about how it really is working for the airline you are targeting.

 

[frank rizzo]

I did not see any American pilots over there just a few Canadian pilots that retired from air Canada and came out of retirement for one year or two of work. They did have some American pilots a few years back flying the A330 when they did not have enough qualified crews but once they did they ded them all real quick.
I did get the cold shoulder from a good portion of jet pilots when I went over I would Introduce my self and half refused to old there hand out to shake hands.
I did not get the warm fuzzy feeling you can talk bonuses etc bases etc but at the end of the day the guys I talked to were stuck in Mumbai hell they don't even have enough instructors in the trng dept there it's a shoe string operation.
No FTDS, CBT or manuals just one old level c sim on its last leg. I saw the material myself from a Canadian just wrapping up.

 

[bafanguy]

The latest ?:

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...pilots-boeing-777-higher-salary/1/333934.html

 

[Ty Webb]

Dumb Pilot-
When you're talking about taxes in the US, the best comparison is going to be your net effective tax rate, basically, what you paid after all your deductions. I think you'll find you actually pay between 20-25%.... Of course, some states have taxes on top of that. Thanks for the expat info.

Ty

 

[uba757]

A couple of friends did the interview but with India as a CAT 2 country and the uncertainties that brings with it, they both turned it down! They were both fairly happy with the "package" but we're told that until the category situation is resolved, they would be based in Mumbai. They were told that by the end of this year or beginning of next year, JETS flight from Newark to Brussels would switch from A330 to B777 and then they could be based back in the USA but until then it is Mumbai.

 

[fareview]

Does anyone know what the Chinese tax rate is?

There are contracts now being offered of 'Salary net of taxes' in China. As the US and China have a tax agreement; if the Chinese rate was close to say 35% then (my worst case effective rate) - would this then mean that these contracts are essentially tax free and more importantly legal.

The numbers in China are getting very attractive assuming the above.

Thoughts?

fv

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Does anyone know what the Chinese tax rate is?

There are contracts now being offered of 'Salary net of taxes' in China. As the US and China have a tax agreement; if the Chinese rate was close to say 35% then (my worst case effective rate) - would this then mean that these contracts are essentially tax free and more importantly legal.

The numbers in China are getting very attractive assuming the above.

Thoughts?

fv

Zup FV....! For what I have found out with friends that are doing the China thing..! It is about 33%, there are some hoops to jump through, but this will pretty much take over your tax liability state side, (minus SS I believe) but as always my recommendation is to talk to a professional tax person that is experienced in foreign income matters.

The problem that I see with the Chinese contracts is not the money, they need to bring the working environment up to par to make it attractive, their commuting conditions are substandard and their medicals are set up for a 17 year old cadet that is used to eating a LOT more vegetables and less junk that we eat in the west, they continue to apply those standards to 50 year old captains of the "super size me" generation, that's just not going to work. Other things like Chinese pilots smoking in the cockpit and getting your salary cut because you did a "go around" that kind of stupidity needs to change and be brought to a more multi cultural working environment before they start getting the applications they need.

 

[fareview]

DB,

Yep all good points. China would be my last choice, just educating myself on market.

How's tax treated with you ? Same as us? We get paid gross and file accordingly or is there a similar set-up in Japan as China?

fv

 

[Dumb Pilot]

With our deal at AJX, it depends on what is the contract company, if you are with CREW (a US company) the taxes are dealt with accordingly, if you are with another agency (PARC in my case) the salary is net and you are responsible for the tax liability in your country of residence....! No tax liability in Japan since we don't get residency status and come in and out with shore pass, that is the reason why we only do international flights.

With other jobs in Japan that give you residency status (such as Skymark) they pay for your Japanese taxes and you can use the paperwork as we discussed on the Chinese contracts, some other jobs here in Japan do provide residency status but you have to pay Japanese taxes ( Vanilla Air, Peach (depending on the option you choose) Jetstar Japan) and EVERYONE and their mother are hiring LOL! There is also another startup that is doing their proving runs now, Spring airlines! A subsidiary of the Chinese Spring airlines, believe it or not LOL!