ALPA Defeats Emirates in Rent-A-Code Scheme

[Dumb Pilot]

If you are tired of Dubai you might want to consider China Southern (foreign bases), anything in Japan, or maybe Korean. At least you can maintain your lifestyle while living in Europe or the US/Canada.

Agreed...! Starting at the bottom at a major in the US is a young man's game (or women LOL!) I can understand you being homesick, but the older your husband is, the lesser the chances to recover financially from that move, professionally as well, just commuting to a junior base and dealing with the bad schedules of a junior line are enough to make the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end....! Look at ALL your possibilities, the contract market offers some very good options for those of us that grew up at the time when apple and blackberries where just fruit...!

 

[typhoonpilot]

A couple of excellent posts there by Green and Buford ( well his wife ).
Green, I know Buford well. He is one of the senior Americans at Emirates. So Buford's wife's post are real. And Green, that really was an excellent look at what one might encounter when returning to a U.S. major. We do tend to forget how good we really have it at Emirates with all the "perks".

So, since I seem to be an oft mentioned person in this thread and since I was a very prominent supporter of pilots from the U.S. going to Emirates I will shed some light on the reason I am leaving.

DP sort of hit the nail on the head. When I came to Emirates I knew that I needed an exit strategy. Staying in the UAE for the rest of my life was not something I really wanted to do. I felt, and have said here and elsewhere, that a 10-15 year timeline is what one should look at when coming to Emirates. One of those exit strategies has been available for a couple of years now, but I deferred because it is very difficult to leave such a stable job with good benefits.

EK is a very good job and I am relatively senior, as well as being in one of the best positions in the airline ( Standards Captain ). That basically means I only work bankers hours when I am in the sim; I hand pick one layover trip and one turn-around trip I want to fly 2 months in advance; and I hand pick a string of days off every month. Still, I work hard since there are a lot of extra duties that are entailed in my roll.

One of the reasons I am leaving is that I have basically risen to the highest position I will ever get to in the airline. The next step up would be a management job, which I am not really interested in. Nor to which I really aspire. I like what I do and it challenges me professionally. I could easily stay in the role for a number of years without getting bored. The job I am going to will be challenging and rewarding in many more ways. It will provide a lot of variety in flying, both different types and different locations. So it is a very exciting move.

This job came open a few years before I was hoping it might. I really wanted to stay at Emirates long enough to "retire" and get travel benefits from them. So from that aspect it has been a difficult decision. But when really good jobs like this come open one needs to be prepared to make the jump. I deferred as long as I could, but now I need to take it or it might not ever be there again.

There are also a number of personal reasons in play that make the move now a good one. The job I am going to offers more time in the States; more quality time with my kids; roughly similar earnings; probably more enriching environment with more professional respect (and I need to be careful how that is taken because I have nothing but deep respect for my immediate superiors); more opportunity for recreational flying; more time to spend with my elderly mother; plus; plus; plus.

In my time at Emirates I have been able to grow professionally far more than I would have at any carrier in the States. That is one of the reasons I have been such a big advocate of pilots from the States coming to EK. Most of them have been able to do the same. We have guys in their early 30s flying left seat in a B777/A330 worldwide. A few more senior ones have checked out on the A380. There have also been opportunities in training, recruiting, flight ops tech, etc that many have taken advantage of. Professional opportunities we just weren’t afforded in the seniority rat race that exists at U.S. legacies.

I am not leaving because I hate Emirates or that I hate Dubai, sorry if that disappoints anyone. It is a positive move both professionally and personally.



Typhoonpilot

 

[Buford]

Thanks TP.

Green thanks for your posts. You've given me a few things to consider and I appreciate the response. You're right, we were about two years at the airline and we lived on the meager salary so we know how awful that can be. I take it you're a first officer to be getting the rosters you have as you're on the same fleet as my husband. I'd say you've been here maybe three years? You also don't have kids so your perspective at this point in your life is quite different to ours. Believe me, I know. I didn't realize families even existed in Dubai when I first came here as a single gal in 1996! Uba757 I think you were somewhat harsh in your response so I'll try and clarify a few things due to my 'lack of research'.

I think some of you have read more into my posts than is meant. For what it's worth I thought it might be useful to offer a different perspective on the whole EK/US thing that seems to occur on the board. To be honest, I'm not even American. Although my husband is born & bred in the US and my kids were also born there we have no particular 'home' to head to so if we had to live in a junior base somewhere then we'd choose one based on the best cost of living and quality of life we could afford. Also, sorry to disappoint you all but I'm certainly not homesick. I've lived away from my own 'home' since 1996 - I left in my early 20's to join Emirates as a flight attendant. I don't dislike Dubai, I have a wealth of friends and a great support network and I'm grateful for the opportunities and experiences it has given us. However, I've had the luxury to see Dubai and Emirates from all angles. I know the hours I was flying in 1996 and it was somewhere in the 60-65 range - I still have the rosters to prove it. My sister is doing 100+ a month. The pilot rosters are maximized to schedule right up until the point of overtime - but never over. My main point in all of this is that these rosters aren't sustainable as you get older but Emirates won't change anything. It works for them and they're making money at the expense of their overworked employees. Thank goodness for the driver taking you to and from work or else there'd even be more accidents on the road.

There are many here who are drinking the company Kool Aid and that's great for you guys but what I've learnt after 11+ years in the sandpit is don't become complacent. This cozy life you lead today may not be here tomorrow. We're here because it works for us now but we aren't naive enough to think that what we have now will be the same again in 5 years time. As Typhoon has already mentioned, have an exit strategy.

 

[Green]

Your perspective makes sense considering you haven't lived the US airline life. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but $210,000+ USD per year at 65 hours a month disappeared after 9/11. You won't find it unless you have 25 years of seniority. You might have to exchange your husband for one who already has 20 years in at a Legacy airline. Maybe General Lee? I'm kidding! Bad joke.

But all kidding aside you might be surprised by what the airlines are paying in the US. US Airways is hiring. First year pay is $3,000/month BEFORE taxes. After 4 years it's $5,200/month again before taxes and that assumes he is on the 767.

At the high end of the scale you have Delta. If your husband could get hired you are looking at about 5k/month first year and 9k/month after 4 years. Not bad at all but definitely nowhere near what you are making right now.

Your husband will never fly 100+ hours per month at EK. Your sister does but so do flight attendants in the US. He probably works harder at EK than he would back home but he also makes a lot more than he would back home. Tell him to spend more time on the swap board and he can alter his line from high to med-low time.

I'm certainly no kook aid drinker. I can complain with the best of them. Emirates uses me and in return I use them. There are no happy family airlines in the US (maaaaybe SWA). Use every benefit you can to the maximum and try to minimize the amount of work you put in using every legal means at your disposal. Keep an eye out for better options. Obviously there's much more to life than money. But figuring out the balance is tough.

Assuming he's a captain your husband would have to make about 260k/year before taxes in the US to equal his salary in dubai. If you have kids you might have to bump that up to 280k-300k. Here is a website with all the airline salaries so you can see exactly what he will make. Good luck
www.airlinepilotcentral.com

 

[Buford]

Thanks Green. I wasn't referring to you as the Kool Aid drinker - you seem quite balanced in your perspective.

Yes, he's a captain but we're in company accommodation. We aren't prepared to do US/AA and at this stage and would only consider United or Delta as options. The salary at US/AA is ridiculous. Our concern is that if we stick around another 20+ years plus the 11+ we've already done then potentially half our lives will have been spent in Dubai. Do we really want that?

 

[Green]

Come on habibi! Dubai is the 8th wonder of the world. Well I'm off to the mall now

 

[jonjuan]

Your perspective makes sense considering you haven't lived the US airline life. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but $210,000+ USD per year at 65 hours a month disappeared after 9/11. You won't find it unless you have 25 years of seniority. You might have to exchange your husband for one who already has 20 years in at a Legacy airline. Maybe General Lee? I'm kidding! Bad joke.

But all kidding aside you might be surprised by what the airlines are paying in the US. US Airways is hiring. First year pay is $3,000/month BEFORE taxes. After 4 years it's $5,200/month again before taxes and that assumes he is on the 767.

At the high end of the scale you have Delta. If your husband could get hired you are looking at about 5k/month first year and 9k/month after 4 years. Not bad at all but definitely nowhere near what you are making right now.

Your husband will never fly 100+ hours per month at EK. Your sister does but so do flight attendants in the US. He probably works harder at EK than he would back home but he also makes a lot more than he would back home. Tell him to spend more time on the swap board and he can alter his line from high to med-low time.

I'm certainly no kook aid drinker. I can complain with the best of them. Emirates uses me and in return I use them. There are no happy family airlines in the US (maaaaybe SWA). Use every benefit you can to the maximum and try to minimize the amount of work you put in using every legal means at your disposal. Keep an eye out for better options. Obviously there's much more to life than money. But figuring out the balance is tough.

Assuming he's a captain your husband would have to make about 260k/year before taxes in the US to equal his salary in dubai. If you have kids you might have to bump that up to 280k-300k. Here is a website with all the airline salaries so you can see exactly what he will make. Good luck
www.airlinepilotcentral.com

According to that website, 757 is over $10K month after 2 years. The delta board is talking about 600 hired just next year and won't stop for a long time, fwiw.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

The delta board is talking about 600 hired just next year and won't stop for a long time, fwiw.

In the 33 years I've been in this business, I'm yet to see an upward cycle that lasted a long time.

 

[jonjuan]

In the 33 years I've been in this business, I'm yet to see an upward cycle that lasted a long time.

Agreed, however, when in your past 33 years have there EVER been the number of mandatory retirements occurring (as stated on the bottom of the website page?). Unless 65 changes, the hiring WILL have to continue.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Everyone is talking about the upcoming retirements as if it was a new phenomenon that we have never seen, there have always been attrition due to retirement, the numbers seem unprecedented just because of the bottleneck caused by the increment in retirement age.
Sorry but I just don't believe in the "nothing but blue skies ahead" when related to this business.

 

[flyboyike]

Our concern is that if we stick around another 20+ years plus the 11+ we've already done then potentially half our lives will have been spent in Dubai. Do we really want that?

There are worse places to spend half one's life.

 

[jonjuan]

There are worse places to spend half one's life.

Agreed like Cleveland, Detroit, Oakland, and Houston....

 

[uba757]

Mrs. Buford, I apologize if I sounded harsh, no disrespect meant!!!! Some of the posters here on flightinfo make it seem like us guys and gals that came over to EK are like the Soviets during the Cold War! THE ENEMY! When in reality we are just pilots who came here looking for a better life for ourself and our families. Please, do not be offended, it's not what I meant!

 

[Buford]

Uba757, I get where you're coming from. Our family is in a much better place having come to Dubai. I dread to think how things would have turned out had we stayed in the US waiting for an opportunity that wasn't there after my husband's last carrier went bankrupt.

 

[fareview]

The contracts in Asia are getting juicier, the young-ish Americans are being drawn home, TP and the likes with their experience will continue to pick at the low hanging fruit.

I think we can all agree .. It's positive for the profession.

fv