How Obamacare is affecting Delta

[General Lee]

Actually, this is not correct!

We receive profit sharing of 10% on profits up to 2.5 billion and 20% only on the amounts OVER 2.5 Billion....for someone with so much attitude you would think you would know this...

My point, again, is that if the profit goes over $2.5 billion, the pilots make more than the last contract's profit sharing scheme. Throw in the fact that last year (Jan to Jan of the year) the DL pilots got a 16.5% raise, I'd say the raise trumped the profit sharing difference between contracts, and thanks to lower gas prices, it will exceed it by a lot anyway.

Is that enough for you? I don't care.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[HowardBorden]

outsourcing number is decreasing. You can't do it all at once

Everyone knows you can't do it all at once. The real point is you shouldn't have done it in the FIRST PLACE!

 

[Flyer1015]

Well, as the stock market gets better, so does the fund. Also, it appears DL is making enough to start paying down that pension fund in fairly large chunks, I think they paid $558 million in accelerated payments in 2010, and higher profits and a better market ensure more of that.

How's your pension at VA going? I bet my 401K and DC fund contributions were more than your total pay last year. If not, it was close.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Like a politician, you didn't answer the question and then went on an offensive. By the time my airline started flying, you had already voted in 32.5% concessions. That's besides the point. I realistically don't expect a 53 airplane operation to have the same retirement plan as a 600+ plane legacy. Now back to the main point since you are such a cheerleader on all things Delta, how underfunded is the Delta pension? Last I heard it was on the order of 6 billion with a 'b'.

 

[General Lee]

Like a politician, you didn't answer the question and then went on an offensive. By the time my airline started flying, you had already voted in 32.5% concessions. That's besides the point. I realistically don't expect a 53 airplane operation to have the same retirement plan as a 600+ plane legacy. Now back to the main point since you are such a cheerleader on all things Delta, how underfunded is the Delta pension? Last I heard it was on the order of 6 billion with a 'b'.

1015,

With huge profits and a better market, that underfunding is being addressed, by smarter people than you and me. As I pointed out, they were already paying accelerated payments in 2010 ($558 million that year), and I would think they are watching it. I don't know the amount personally, I guess you do for some reason, but with savings from "Endevor" and bag fees, I have a feeling they will be able to adequately fund it. If they can make $500 million in one month, I have confidence they can do it. That is probably more than your airline is worth. Just sayin.......


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Everyone knows you can't do it all at once. The real point is you shouldn't have done it in the FIRST PLACE!

Then why did you allow the Volaris codeshare? You used to have zero codeshares, right? Why did you allow even one? You guys ain't perfect either. When you guys have zero codeshares, pay your AT 737 guys the same as your SWA 737 pilots (a form of outsourcing approved by your union? Really?), then and only then can you try to preach to the rest of us. You ain't perfect.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Flyer1015]

1015,

With huge profits and a better market, that underfunding is being addressed, by smarter people than you and me. As I pointed out, they were already paying accelerated payments in 2010 ($558 million that year), and I would think they are watching it. I don't know the amount personally, I guess you do for some reason, but with savings from "Endevor" and bag fees, I have a feeling they will be able to adequately fund it. If they can make $500 million in one month, I have confidence they can do it. That is probably more than your airline is worth. Just sayin.......


Bye Bye---General Lee

No way are you a real Delta pilot. No one would go that far. Look at all your posts in this thread, you are constantly defending yourself by attacking everyone else on the offense. I spend a lot of time on the internet and have been called out on it. No way are you getting away with all this as a Delta pilot. My personal guess is you are indeed a younger person living at home with parents. One of your family members is a Delta employee (be it ramp, flight attendant, etc) but the point being they have access to DeltaNet which you have a username/password for. That is where you get your information.

 

[General Lee]

No way are you a real Delta pilot. No one would go that far. Look at all your posts in this thread, you are constantly defending yourself by attacking everyone else on the offense. I spend a lot of time on the internet and have been called out on it. No way are you getting away with all this as a Delta pilot. My personal guess is you are indeed a younger person living at home with parents. One of your family members is a Delta employee (be it ramp, flight attendant, etc) but the point being they have access to DeltaNet which you have a username/password for. That is where you get your information.

Wow, a bit defensive..... Look, you are continually slammed, and for the right reasons. I love your "personal guess...." Hey, you couldn't handle the backlash on the Regional board, you get slammed on this board, so if you can't handle it, go to the LOCO board and tell everyone how great VA is. You likely will stay there until it goes away. Oh yeah, wait, you're a lav dumper for them in SFO, that's my "personal guess...." Bahahahahaa! Funny stuff.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[HowardBorden]

Then why did you allow the Volaris codeshare? You used to have zero codeshares, right? Why did you allow even one? You guys ain't perfect either. When you guys have zero codeshares, pay your AT 737 guys the same as your SWA 737 pilots (a form of outsourcing approved by your union? Really?), then and only then can you try to preach to the rest of us. You ain't perfect.


Bye Bye---General Lee

OK, let's break this down.

Then why did you allow the Volaris codeshare? You used to have zero codeshares, right? Why did you allow even one?

We used to have zero codeshares and we still do. We do ALL of our own flying. You are so fond of saying: "You can't do it all at once." You're right, YOU can't do it all at once, but WE can because we learned from others mistakes in this area and never allowed it to become uncontrolable. We allowed 1 codeshare and now it is gone. The single codeshare was not well received by the pilot group so we decided to nip it in the bud before it got out of hand. The contractual language was strengthened from our previous codeshare language to this:

4. Near International/Trans-Border Codeshare
a. Near International/Trans-Border Codeshare will be defined exclusively as Volaris Codeshare flights that include a trans-border segment between Mexico and a SWA city in the continental United States.
b. The Company will not engage in Near International/Trans-Border Codeshare with any carrier other than Volaris.

The Volaris codeshare is done and I can't see a scenario where it will ever come back because it will most likely be completely eliminated in the new contract. On top of that we have this language in our CBA:

All flying covered by this Agreement shall be performed by pilots whose names appear on the Southwest Airlines Master Pilot Seniority List, except as otherwise provided for in this Agreement.

2. Domestic Codeshare
Southwest Airlines will not enter into a domestic Codeshare Agreement within the fifty (50) United States without the agreement of the Association.
3. Codeshare for Regional Aircraft Flying
Southwest Airlines will not enter into any domestic or trans-border code share agreement with a regional carrier or involving a regional aircraft

When you guys have zero codeshares, pay your AT 737 guys the same as your SWA 737 pilots (a form of outsourcing approved by your union? Really?), then and only then can you try to preach to the rest of us.

What has been explained to you over and over again is the fact that AirTran pilots work under a completely different CBA and are represented by a completely different union. SWA nor SWAPA can change their collective bargaining agreement without the approval of ALPA. SWA offered ALPA pay rates equal to SWAPA rates on the date of signing, but in concurence with ALPA bylaws that side letter was not put out for membership ratification and pronounced DOA by the AirTran MEC.

All that being said, I guess we have your permission to "preach to the rest of us" December 31, 2014, because we will have zero codeshares and the pilots represented by another union will be working under the SWAPA CBA for SWAPA pay rates. Is that correct?

 

[redflyer65]

Howard,

You have to realize that Delta gets around 40% of their domestic feed from the Connection Carriers, and that 40% accounts for 20% of ALL of Delta's income (quarter over quarter and year over year)

So by outsourcing, they are paying sub-par wages and then turning around and then reaps the benefit (of those low wages) via Profit Sharing that these regional pilots provide. In the meantime, Delta continues to pressure all Connection Carriers for lower wages or possibly the contract is reassigned (or as in Comair's situation...closed down completely.) It's more like a D scale setup.

 

[maxblast72]

With huge profits and a better market, that underfunding is being addressed, by smarter people than you and me. As I pointed out, they were already paying accelerated payments in 2010 ($558 million that year), and I would think they are watching it. I don't know the amount personally, I guess you do for some reason, but with savings from "Endevor" and bag fees, I have a feeling they will be able to adequately fund it. If they can make $500 million in one month, I have confidence they can do it. That is probably more than your airline is worth. Just sayin.......


Bye Bye---General Lee

General, if you take a look at the last few Delta 10-K's, you will see that Delta is required to put in approximately $600-700 million per year into the pension plan as required by the 2006 Pension Protection Act. Pretty sure that $558 million contribution in 2010 was the required amount, not an accelerated payment. Delta did state in their Q2 2013 earning press release the following:

"The company also plans to make up to $1 billion of incremental contributions to the company's defined benefit pension plans over the next five years. These contributions would be in addition to the $650 - $700 million annual contribution requirement."

Here is the outstanding pension obligation (ie underfunding) at Delta over the past few years according to the published balance sheet on the following dates:

12/31/10: $11.8 billion
12/31/11: $14.1 billion
12/31/12: $16.0 billion
6/30/13: $15.4 billion

The good news for Delta is the upward trend has finally been stopped. However, $15.4 billion is still a large amount. General, you better hope Uncle Bernanke keeps printing $85 billion a month while the Japanese and European central banks keep pace in an attempt to keep their economies afloat too.

 

[Flyer1015]

Wow, a bit defensive..... Look, you are continually slammed, and for the right reasons. I love your "personal guess...." Hey, you couldn't handle the backlash on the Regional board, you get slammed on this board, so if you can't handle it, go to the LOCO board and tell everyone how great VA is. You likely will stay there until it goes away. Oh yeah, wait, you're a lav dumper for them in SFO, that's my "personal guess...." Bahahahahaa! Funny stuff.


Bye Bye---General Lee

You're pathetic. I can handle whatever you are implying on the regional forum. And no one is getting slammed on this forum worse than you. When's the last time I posted about VA? You on the other hand spend every breathing minute on this forum sucking up to Delta. One day you will have to move out of your parents house. 18,000 posts = no life.

 

[HowardBorden]

Howard,

You have to realize that Delta gets around 40% of their domestic feed from the Connection Carriers, and that 40% accounts for 20% of ALL of Delta's income (quarter over quarter and year over year).

Delta
Total Daily Flights: 4,684
Mainline Flights: 2,149 ? 46%
Outsourced Flights: 2,535 ? 54%

 

[redflyer65]

Delta
Total Daily Flights: 4,684
Mainline Flights: 2,149 ? 46%
Outsourced Flights: 2,535 ? 54%

Whoops! My bad.


So the unfunded pension actually went up from 11.8 to 16 BILLION? That's rather impressive.

 

[General Lee]

OK, let's break this down.

Then why did you allow the Volaris codeshare? You used to have zero codeshares, right? Why did you allow even one?

We used to have zero codeshares and we still do. We do ALL of our own flying. You are so fond of saying: "You can't do it all at once." You're right, YOU can't do it all at once, but WE can because we learned from others mistakes in this area and never allowed it to become uncontrolable. We allowed 1 codeshare and now it is gone. The single codeshare was not well received by the pilot group so we decided to nip it in the bud before it got out of hand. The contracytual language was strengthened from our previous codeshare language to this:

4. Near International/Trans-Border Codeshare
a. Near International/Trans-Border Codeshare will be defined exclusively as Volaris Codeshare flights that include a trans-border segment between Mexico and a SWA city in the continental United States.
b. The Company will not engage in Near International/Trans-Border Codeshare with any carrier other than Volaris.

The Volaris codeshare is done and I can't see a scenario where it will ever come back because it will most likely be completely eliminated in the new contract. On top of that we have this language in our CBA:

All flying covered by this Agreement shall be performed by pilots whose names appear on the Southwest Airlines Master Pilot Seniority List, except as otherwise provided for in this Agreement.

2. Domestic Codeshare
Southwest Airlines will not enter into a domestic Codeshare Agreement within the fifty (50) United States without the agreement of the Association.
3. Codeshare for Regional Aircraft Flying
Southwest Airlines will not enter into any domestic or trans-border code share agreement with a regional carrier or involving a regional aircraft

When you guys have zero codeshares, pay your AT 737 guys the same as your SWA 737 pilots (a form of outsourcing approved by your union? Really?), then and only then can you try to preach to the rest of us.

What has been explained to you over and over again is the fact that AirTran pilots work under a completely different CBA and are represented by a completely different union. SWA nor SWAPA can change their collective bargaining agreement without the approval of ALPA. SWA offered ALPA pay rates equal to SWAPA rates on the date of signing, but in concurence with ALPA bylaws that side letter was not put out for membership ratification and pronounced DOA by the AirTran MEC.

All that being said, I guess we have your permission to "preach to the rest of us" December 31, 2014, because we will have zero codeshares and the pilots represented by another union will be working under the SWAPA CBA for SWAPA pay rates. Is that correct?

Howie,

I understand what you're saying, but overall you are full of krap. You slam Delta for something that is currently being corrected, in a big way. If you don't think dumping 140 total RJs from the system feed within a 3 year period is a good start, then you don't know what is going on. Then, add 88 717s to recapture those routes that were given up, and that is a huge fix. It's a great start, but even your company is dumping 17 AT cities, obviously because they deemed some cities too small for 737s. Well, DL runs hub and spoke, and some cities can't handle a 717, but the hub feed and high revenue from some of those small cities is still valuable, so there will always be a need for some RJ feed. Just like the connection traffic you get from Volaris, it is valuable. That's the way it goes.

And your contract is full of things that NEVER should have happened in a "good" merger. You had the opportunity to watch two before you did yours, and you went down the wrong path, and many are unhappy, or not feeling "the LUV." It's impossible to make everyone happy, but almost all (except Future System Chief pilot Maxblast) of one side feels jilted. That ain't good, and saying you guys also are mad just puts your egos in focus. Mergers happen, it's business. You could have handled it better, and that 84% yes on their side wasn't a "hey, we're so happy to vote YES!!!" You know that, too.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Delta
Total Daily Flights: 4,684
Mainline Flights: 2,149 ? 46%
Outsourced Flights: 2,535 ? 54%

Howie,

Did you factor 140 fewer RJs and then add 88 717s? Do the math and get back to us.....

I got one for you. Mexico and Caribbean (not SJU) flights: 100% lower paid AirTran pilots, and some Volaris flights too. SWA: None, they don't know how to fly to those places, they are still adjusting to VNAV and autothrottles, don't overload them....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

You know Volaris is done and over, right General?

 

[General Lee]

You're pathetic. I can handle whatever you are implying on the regional forum. And no one is getting slammed on this forum worse than you. When's the last time I posted about VA? You on the other hand spend every breathing minute on this forum sucking up to Delta. One day you will have to move out of your parents house. 18,000 posts = no life.

No you can't. The PNCL guys ran you out of there. Now you're at a Loco that is barely profitable, and not growing anymore. Good luck with that! And I don't live with my parents, rather just your Mom. She is FANTASTIC.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

You know Volaris is done and over, right General?

Oh yeah, just like today Korean Air announcing they are stopping the DL codeshare to 97 US cities, and reciprocal codeshares from Seoul to Japan, China, etc. Sounds like both airlines are scaling back, which is good. But, one is a Worldwide Airlines, and one is an expensive LCC that isn't the lowest cost anymore. Oh well. I think we'll both do FANTASTIC.......


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

Again, General.....You know the Volaris codeshare is over right?

Other than a LIMITED codeshare with AirTran, Southwest can't codeshare with anyone else. You get that right? (Slightly different that your swiss cheese contract)

Remember the SkyWest/AirTran codeshare? It was shutdown immediately.

Second question for you.....

How many codeshares does Delta have? Feel free to include all Connection Carriers too.

I'll be standing by..

 

[HowardBorden]

and some Volaris flights too.

When will you get it through your thick head, WE DO NOT CODESHARE WITH VOLARIS!

Partnership Update
As of February 22, 2013, flights connecting with Volaris to Mexico are no longer available for purchase through southwest.com.

http://www.southwest.com/html/air/intl/?int=GSUBNAV-AIR-VOLARIS