AA's Pilots Screw its Furloughee's

[C-150ETOPS]

While I agree that pilots should be able to continue to defer and collect some of the equity, those of us who are taking pretty damn significant risks by returning now, and not waiting until things are sorted out, should be rewarded for taking those risks.

Sorry dude.

Back and collect or stay away and give it away.

 

[matchthehatch]

Sorry dude.

Back and collect or stay away and give it away.

In case it that was directed toward me, please reread my post dude. "...those of us who are taking pretty damn significant risks by returning now..."

I'm in the May 15th recall class, partially to ensure my inclusion in the ED.

 

[Turtle21]

Furloghed aa pilots have a seniority number at aa and are union members, for them to be excluded is a crime.

Yeah, sure we all think its a crime. Now what?

 

[Bringupthebird]

Turtle would be among your least loyal allies. He will surely recommend that you abandon APA for his highly effective and efficient "union" (which prefers disunity to relevance).

 

[Bringupthebird]

Real pilots unions treat the furloughee's with respect

Don't mention that to Turtle, whose union brags at what they have done for "their side" at the expense of west pilots still on furlough. And don't remind him how that same union assessed the entire group to pay the health insurance of a chosen few.

 

[Turtle21]

Don't mention that to Turtle, whose union brags at what they have done for "their side" at the expense of west pilots still on furlough. And don't remind him how that same union assessed the entire group to pay the health insurance of a chosen few.

The sooner you accept the fact that a union is driven by the majority and the minority is always left with whining about integrity, and some outdated story trying to counter "might makes right", the better off your ulcers will be.

Who cares what is "right", the majority answer that every time we vote. I get it, the minority have the right to scream and wear "integrity T-shirts". Ok. You are correct. Unions pay lip service to unity and integrity. You are correct. Now what? Do you think anything will change? There will always be a majority and a minority, and the scammers (I mean skimmers) on the top.

Now what?

 

[kwick]

The same APA guys that objected to removing age discrimination, based on "so-called safety reasons," and now are flying after age 60.

To continue to fly after reaching age 60, after professing that it is unsafe, is unconscionable. They should have their licenses revoked!

At least the ones that said they thought it was unsafe.

 

[Full of LUV]

Pilots eat their own. Doesn't matter, junior or senior. They all talk a good game, brotherhood, stand together, etc. Just ask a Delta or United retiree.

Retirees..... UAL/DAL made what turned out to be wildly unsustainable pension promises that eventually brought to reality in BK. How did the pilots throw them under the bus? The DAL pilots took like 50% pay cuts as well.... are you saying they should have taken 70% cuts so the old pension system could go forward?

 

[Flopgut]

The sooner you accept the fact that a union is driven by the majority and the minority is always left with whining about integrity, and some outdated story trying to counter "might makes right", the better off your ulcers will be.

Who cares what is "right", the majority answer that every time we vote. I get it, the minority have the right to scream and wear "integrity T-shirts". Ok. You are correct. Unions pay lip service to unity and integrity. You are correct. Now what? Do you think anything will change? There will always be a majority and a minority, and the scammers (I mean skimmers) on the top.

Now what?

I'm pretty sure you're about to find yourself in the minority. APA guy told me there is only one list they will go into SLI with you guys on, and it aint USAPA's

 

[Bringupthebird]

The sooner you accept the fact that a union is driven by the majority and the minority is always left with whining about integrity, and some outdated story trying to counter "might makes right", the better off your ulcers will be.

Who cares what is "right", the majority answer that every time we vote. I get it, the minority have the right to scream and wear "integrity T-shirts". Ok. You are correct. Unions pay lip service to unity and integrity. You are correct. Now what? Do you think anything will change? There will always be a majority and a minority, and the scammers (I mean skimmers) on the top.

Now what?

I think a 16 year old once tried to convince his friend that he could drive 85 all day long as long as he didn't get pulled over. Laws only apply to those who get caught, right?

Were you that 16 yr old?

 

[Turtle21]

I think a 16 year old once tried to convince his friend that he could drive 85 all day long as long as he didn't get pulled over. Laws only apply to those who get caught, right?

Were you that 16 yr old?

No, but I live in West Texas during the winter and Germany in the summers where you can go 85 all day long.

You show us the law that prevents union from deciding things democratically and I'll take you for older than 16.

 

[Jim]

...show us the law that prevents union from deciding things democratically...

It's called DFR, and it's about to bite your pathetic union's ass once again.

 

[ttuite]

AA furloughee's have the option to defer for up to 3 years after being offered recall per contract. Some may have other job contracts or oversea's or family issues whatever , by exercising thier contractural rights under their contract they will be excluded from the payout so the current pilots will get thier fair share, It doesn't matter what they have been doing the last 9 years on furlough , some may have landed good jobs other maybe not, it doesn;'t matter they are entitled to an equal share , they have a seniority number the fact that the apa put an arbitrary time limit to come back to be eligible and neglected the contractural rights of the furloughee's is unexcusable. AA pilots screw the furloughee's plain and simple. If anyone is entitled to a bonus its the pilots that took the long hit in income, ie the furloughee. its shameful.

Well

Did their "contractual rights" include an agreement to share in these benefits while furloughed. Then I guess it is not their contractual "right" to receive the benefits while electing for whatever reason to stay away. I work with several furloughed AA. They are not going back because they make too much money with us and they have a great schedule. Are you suggesting that they have it harder than a JFK based FO on reserve who commutes to life in a crash pad?

 

[OHGOON]

Well

Did their "contractual rights" include an agreement to share in these benefits while furloughed. Then I guess it is not their contractual "right" to receive the benefits while electing for whatever reason to stay away. I work with several furloughed AA. They are not going back because they make too much money with us and they have a great schedule. Are you suggesting that they have it harder than a JFK based FO on reserve who commutes to life in a crash pad?

Well it isn't a contractual right for the active pilots either, so that is no argument.

In your scenario, I have to agree with you, because those pilots don't intend to ever return, but consider a pilot who wants to come back but is out for medical reasons just long enough to miss the arbitrary deadline. His or her income is impacted negatively already and now on top of that they miss out on this one time payout too? How about the guy who has to break his/her training contract in order to return now rather than in a year or two, he or she now faces a lose/lose proposition for no earthly reason.

If you have a recall right for 3 yrs after the most junior pilot has been offered, then you should have the right to your share of the money as long as you return withing that time period. Setting any other deadline is capricious.

 

[Full of LUV]

Well it isn't a contractual right for the active pilots either, so that is no argument.

In your scenario, I have to agree with you, because those pilots don't intend to ever return, but consider a pilot who wants to come back but is out for medical reasons just long enough to miss the arbitrary deadline. His or her income is impacted negatively already and now on top of that they miss out on this one time payout too? How about the guy who has to break his/her training contract in order to return now rather than in a year or two, he or she now faces a lose/lose proposition for no earthly reason.

If you have a recall right for 3 yrs after the most junior pilot has been offered, then you should have the right to your share of the money as long as you return withing that time period. Setting any other deadline is capricious.

So OHGOON, by those arguments you'd be fine with the APA holding the money until the furloughee actually returns right or do you actually think that the furloughee now working for FEDEX should keep the merger money and not return to AA?

 

[OHGOON]

So OHGOON, by those arguments you'd be fine with the APA holding the money until the furloughee actually returns right or do you actually think that the furloughee now working for FEDEX should keep the merger money and not return to AA?

What harm would it do if the APA held the money in a trust until a deferred pilot returned within the 3 year window? If your FEDEX guy chooses to stay out beyond the 3 yrs, he/she forfeits any claim to it. Seems fair and covers everybody rather not just those "who happen to be active" upon a totally arbitrary calendar date.

 

[Turtle21]

What harm would it do if the APA held the money in a trust until a deferred pilot returned within the 3 year window? If your FEDEX guy chooses to stay out beyond the 3 yrs, he/she forfeits any claim to it. Seems fair and covers everybody rather not just those "who happen to be active" upon a totally arbitrary calendar date.

I agree but the majority rules in a democracy, and even if someone opposes what the majority is doing, based on what is right and wrong... Well the minority is simply wrong about how things get decided, but their consolation is that they're right! They can never get the money but they spend more money fighting it and even if they win, they still lost.

 

[Full of LUV]

I agree but the majority rules in a democracy, and even if someone opposes what the majority is doing, based on what is right and wrong... Well the minority is simply wrong about how things get decided, but their consolation is that they're right! They can never get the money but they spend more money fighting it and even if they win, they still lost.

Some companies / unions never seem to learn. I have no dog in this fight either way, but for the want of a few more dollars amongst the active pilots, they will be willing to take from the 100 or so that will return at some point eventually, thus casing a fully imbittered/jaded pilot that the company will have as an employee and the pilots will fly with as a copilot for another 20 years. Doesn't seem like a good investment for either the company or the union.

 

[Tweaker]

A) Paragraphs, man, paragraphs!

B) "You would think that a union would stick by their own." No, no I wouldn't. I've been in this industry too long to be so naive.

 

[Tweaker]

While I agree that pilots should be able to continue to defer and collect some of the equity, those of us who are taking pretty damn significant risks by returning now, and not waiting until things are sorted out, should be rewarded for taking those risks.

Very good point, sir.