AA's Pilots Screw its Furloughee's

[bendover]

Once again the pilots at AA through its union the APA have decided to screw the furloughed pilots. The furloughee's are not included in any of the 13% equity payout agreed upon with the company in bankruptsy which will be distributed to all of the pilots EXCEPT the pilots on furlough that have decided to defer , as contractually agreed upon by the apa. The pilots that can't come back for whatever reason and are in deffered status will be excluded entirely from any percentage of the payout. If they cant get back on the list by an arbitrary date being created in the next few months , they are screwed! The same pilots that have been furloughed and not offered recall for almost 10 years! until just recently. You would think that a union would stick by their own, The furloughee's took the hit for the rest of the pilots so they could stay employed, However the AA pilots eat thier junior pilots and have decided to take their share for themselves, I'm just saying it how it is. Just like they Fu**e3d the TWA pilots and stole seniority they are doing it again. All other Real pilots unions treat the furloughee's with respect and have inclued them in any bonus or equity payouts but not the AA pilots , Everyone should be aware of the kind of pilots AA has.
Truth hurts but thats the way It is. now let the spin and slams begin, to try to make yourselves feel better.

 

[Phlintstone]

It is time for the old farts to go...now. They keep wanting more and more from the junior guys to "recover" what they lost. I had a 64.5 year old guy tell me that all reserve guys should be on call 24/7...that was on leg one of a 4 day. It did not get better from there.

Phred

 

[av8tor19]

According to what I have seen, ALL pilots have been offered recall. So why are you arguing this injustice since they now have had an opportunity to return?

Most likely these people were never on property when AA went bankrupt in the first place. Are you saying a furloughlee working at SWA for the last 7 years should have a stake in the AA bankruptcy?

 

[General Lee]

According to what I have seen, ALL pilots have been offered recall. So why are you arguing this injustice since they now have had an opportunity to return?

Most likely these people were never on property when AA went bankrupt in the first place. Are you saying a furloughlee working at SWA for the last 7 years should have a stake in the AA bankruptcy?

Good post. If everyone was offered a recall notice and people declined, then why should they still be included in the current BK exit payout? Now if they had not gotten to everyone, like the bottom TWA guys, that would be different. Come back now during the expansion and benefit, or stay out and do not. It's not like people didn't see this coming. AA has been in BK for months with an eventual exit, and the US merger has been rumored for over a year.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Sparse]

It is time for the old farts to go...now. They keep wanting more and more from the junior guys to "recover" what they lost. I had a 64.5 year old guy tell me that all reserve guys should be on call 24/7...that was on leg one of a 4 day. It did not get better from there.

Phred

Pilots eat their own. Doesn't matter, junior or senior. They all talk a good game, brotherhood, stand together, etc. Just ask a Delta or United retiree.

 

[bendover]

AA furloughee's have the option to defer for up to 3 years after being offered recall per contract. Some may have other job contracts or oversea's or family issues whatever , by exercising thier contractural rights under their contract they will be excluded from the payout so the current pilots will get thier fair share, It doesn't matter what they have been doing the last 9 years on furlough , some may have landed good jobs other maybe not, it doesn;'t matter they are entitled to an equal share , they have a seniority number the fact that the apa put an arbitrary time limit to come back to be eligible and neglected the contractural rights of the furloughee's is unexcusable. AA pilots screw the furloughee's plain and simple. If anyone is entitled to a bonus its the pilots that took the long hit in income, ie the furloughee. its shameful.

 

[Scoot 11]

Pilots eat their own. Doesn't matter, junior or senior. They all talk a good game, brotherhood, stand together, etc. Just ask a Delta or United retiree.

PMFJI. The Delta retiree did some good ********************ing of his own while here. Need I remind him of the PRP program, and the green slipping while we had guys on the street. This under the most lucrative pilot contract in aviation. The DL retiree will get no sympathy from this guy.

 

[General Lee]

PMFJI. The Delta retiree did some good ********************ing of his own while here. Need I remind him of the PRP program, and the green slipping while we had guys on the street. This under the most lucrative pilot contract in aviation. The DL retiree will get no sympathy from this guy.

The PRP program wasn't fair, but what was the company to do heading into BK? The senior guys were only required, via the contract, to give 24 hours notice to retire, while watching the GATT rate. That meant at the end of each month all of the 777 Capts could potentially retire and give 24 hours notice, essentially parking the whole 777 fleet. The PRP program contained mainly recently retired LCAs, checking out guys that weren't going to leave. It wasn't fair, but it kept the 777 fleet flying, and they were shopping them around (remember Joberg 777 engine failure that closed the airport down there?). I had a line check with one of them and I think he got the icy picture that he wasn't very popular in our cockpit.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Turtle21]

Once again the pilots at AA through its union the APA have decided to screw the furloughed pilots. The furloughee's are not included in any of the 13% equity payout agreed upon with the company in bankruptsy which will be distributed to all of the pilots EXCEPT the pilots on furlough that have decided to defer , as contractually agreed upon by the apa. The pilots that can't come back for whatever reason and are in deffered status will be excluded entirely from any percentage of the payout. If they cant get back on the list by an arbitrary date being created in the next few months , they are screwed! The same pilots that have been furloughed and not offered recall for almost 10 years! until just recently. You would think that a union would stick by their own, The furloughee's took the hit for the rest of the pilots so they could stay employed, However the AA pilots eat thier junior pilots and have decided to take their share for themselves, I'm just saying it how it is. Just like they Fu**e3d the TWA pilots and stole seniority they are doing it again. All other Real pilots unions treat the furloughee's with respect and have inclued them in any bonus or equity payouts but not the AA pilots , Everyone should be aware of the kind of pilots AA has.
Truth hurts but thats the way It is. now let the spin and slams begin, to try to make yourselves feel better.

There has never been a union "that stuck with its own." "Sticking with each other" for "unity" is a sales job of opportunistic "leaders" at the top who ride the wave of whatever the majority wants. The premise of a union is that mobs have passions that can be manipulated and wielded in order to get more, especially for those smart enough to be elected to wield those passions.

Exploitation by majority is simply what unions were born for. Notions of our duty to unity help obscure and obviate a firm grasp of the distasteful reality.

 

[OHGOON]

Good post. If everyone was offered a recall notice and people declined, then why should they still be included in the current BK exit payout? Now if they had not gotten to everyone, like the bottom TWA guys, that would be different. Come back now during the expansion and benefit, or stay out and do not. It's not like people didn't see this coming. AA has been in BK for months with an eventual exit, and the US merger has been rumored for over a year.



Bye Bye---General Lee

People have been furloughed for a very long time and many moved on to other things but there are equally as many who want to come back but cannot do so soon enough for a myriad of reasons/obligations. Why should they miss out? Why not hold their portion of the payout until they are able to make it back on property on their schedule. Forcing them to come back early or forfeit due to an arbitrary date set by their own Union is unfair. Any unclaimed funds could be redistributed after the 3 yr clock runs out.

Hate to say it, but it's once again not APA's finest hour.

 

[General Lee]

There has never been a union "that stuck with its own." "Sticking with each other" for "unity" is a sales job of opportunistic "leaders" at the top who ride the wave of whatever the majority wants. The premise of a union is that mobs have passions that can be manipulated and wielded in order to get more, especially for those smart enough to be elected to wield those passions.

Exploitation by majority is simply what unions were born for. Notions of our duty to unity help obscure and obviate a firm grasp of the distasteful reality.

Yes, but what your group did was far worse. Everyone, including the company and both pilot groups, signed on the bottom line for an agreed upon process and arbitrator. The APA wasn't nice to any other group also, but they never agreed to binding arbitration. Your group put that process into question, from now on. Everyone will now ask prior to entering arbitration, "are they going to pull a USAir?" Shame on you.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Bringupthebird]

The furloughee's took the hit for the rest of the pilots so they could stay employed,

What was their other option? Folks get furloughed because they are junior. There is nothing altruistic about opening a letter that says you're furloughed. Volunteering to take a personal unpaid leave so a more junior guy can get his job back, that's noble. Rebuilding an airline from the brink so that a furloughed guy has someplace to come back to- that's admirable.

Bemoaning the fact that folks who were not employees are not sharing in the benefits of employees is just childish.

 

[Turtle21]

What was their other option? Folks get furloughed because they are junior. There is nothing altruistic about opening a letter that says you're furloughed. Volunteering to take a personal unpaid leave so a more junior guy can get his job back, that's noble. Rebuilding an airline from the brink so that a furloughed guy has someplace to come back to- that's admirable.

Bemoaning the fact that folks who were not employees are not sharing in the benefits of employees is just childish.

There is no necessity to justify what the majority does, beyond saying, "it's what we all voted for." Don't forget it!

 

[General Lee]

There is no necessity to justify what the majority does, beyond saying, "it's what we all voted for." Don't forget it!

The Majority also don't want to give up their belongings lost in a divorce hearing, but you still have to comply, just like you will with the NIC award. You all signed up and signed on the bottom line, and we all know it. Sorry loser.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[bendover]

Furloghed aa pilots have a seniority number at aa and are union members, for them to be excluded is a crime.

 

[flyboyike]

All other Real pilots unions treat the furloughee's with respect....

Since when?

 

[Smarta$$]

Furloghed aa pilots have a seniority number at aa and are union members, for them to be excluded is a crime.

Go back before the deadline.

 

[OHGOON]

Go back before the deadline.

Not the point! Some cannot and will miss out... No earthly reason it should be that.

 

[Smarta$$]

Not the point! Some cannot and will miss out... No earthly reason it should be that.

Pilots are exceptionally greedy and self centered. This decision by the APA does not surprise me at all, it is what pilots do, especially the senior pilots that usually run and control unions and negotiations.

As for the person who started this post, I am certain that he COULD go back in time, but probably wants to stay where he is until the last second to make the most money he can, and allow more people to get hired at AA so that he can go back as high up the list as possible. He will say that he is just concerned with others that have training contracts bla bla bla, but we all know pilots well enough to know that he cares primarily about himself, just like nearly ALL of the rest of the pilots...

No dog in this fight, and barely care at all. Just know how pilots think and strategerize...

 

[matchthehatch]

While I agree that pilots should be able to continue to defer and collect some of the equity, those of us who are taking pretty damn significant risks by returning now, and not waiting until things are sorted out, should be rewarded for taking those risks.