Mideast Airlines Taking Over

[8sugarsugar]

Edit: Just for yucks, I'll write my Congresscritters along with the Senate and House Transportation Committee members and let them know I'm in favor of giving Emirates unrestricted 5th Freedom access to all US cities. After all, they were gracious enough to allow me to defend their country and region when I was in the military while they guarded the rear lines.

Emirates has only bought over 200 Boeing 777s, that is a bit of political clout. Plus, US cities are begging Emirates to hook them up to the Emirates SkyCargo Network.

 

[8sugarsugar]

deleted

 

[General Lee]

Emirates has only bought over 200 Boeing 777s, that is a bit of political clout. Plus, US cities are begging Emirates to hook them up to the Emirates SkyCargo Network.

They also bought plenty of A330s and A380s, and Europe has pretty much told them they do NOT get unlimited access. France and Germany limit them to a certain number of cities, no more. Etihad had to buy into Air Berlin to try to gain headway, but Air Berlin has to fly passengers to Abu Dhabi, to connect to Etihad, to the cities Etihad can't go to due to this restricitions. The problem is Emirates, Etihad, and Qatari have nothing to offer the other Governments, other than stealing marketshare away from their national airlines, that produce jobs in their countries. When Emirates wants to fly 4 A380s per day from one city to Dubai, those pax aren't all going to Dubai, and that hurts the National airline. Hence restrictions. Canada is the best example---3 flights a week, period. It will only take a matter of time when the US national airlines will go to their lobbyists, who will go to the Congressmen and say "put up some roadblocks". It's called Votes, and a few legacies in the US have a bunch more pull with "local" congressmen than Emirates has with Boeing. The Senator from West Virginia couldn't give a ratt's butt about Emirates, but he could throw in some legislation that could limit EXCESS competition.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Varmint]

Eliminate Asian cities and Australia/New Zealand. The number gets much smaller.

20 city pairs? I can do that with 7 cities.

In how many US cities does Emirates currently have 5th Freedom rights? The same number of US ports that Dubai Ports World bought in 2006?

No worries; I'm sure that DOT/FAA will simply rubber stamp Emirates' requests and there will be zero public opposition. :laugh:
I must say, it's amusigly easy to spot newhires at various airlines. Watch out for those Dubai rent scams.

Edit: Just for yucks, I'll write my Congresscritters along with the Senate and House Transportation Committee members and let them know I'm in favor of giving Emirates unrestricted 5th Freedom access to all US cities. After all, they were gracious enough to allow me to defend their country and region when I was in the military while they guarded the rear lines.

Let's just eliminate everything so you seem right.

Cities....not city pairs.

When your debating resorts to personal digs you are grabbing for straws. Enough said on this from me.

Put your arm straight up, bend it back, and give yourself a pat on the back for serving in the military. I did also.....fortunately without the chip on my shoulder towards other areas of the world.

 

[8sugarsugar]

They also bought plenty of A330s and A380s, and Europe has pretty much told them they do NOT get unlimited access. France and Germany limit them to a certain number of cities, no more. Etihad had to buy into Air Berlin to try to gain headway, but Air Berlin has to fly passengers to Abu Dhabi, to connect to Etihad, to the cities Etihad can't go to due to this restricitions. The problem is Emirates, Etihad, and Qatari have nothing to offer the other Governments, other than stealing marketshare away from their national airlines, that produce jobs in their countries. When Emirates wants to fly 4 A380s per day from one city to Dubai, those pax aren't all going to Dubai, and that hurts the National airline. Hence restrictions. Canada is the best example---3 flights a week, period. It will only take a matter of time when the US national airlines will go to their lobbyists, who will go to the Congressmen and say "put up some roadblocks". It's called Votes, and a few legacies in the US have a bunch more pull with "local" congressmen than Emirates has with Boeing. The Senator from West Virginia couldn't give a ratt's butt about Emirates, but he could throw in some legislation that could limit EXCESS competition.


Bye Bye---General Lee
__________________
I LOVE ALL OF YOU. Don't forget it, YOU ARE ALL AWESOME! PEACE BROS!

quite the contrary, Emirates is expanding rapidly in Europe. Just added Lyon, New Castle, Warsaw, Barcelona, and Dublin.

Emirates has a lot to offer Governments. For example, trade between Texas and the UAE is in the $billions and Emirates is the bridge.

You are right about passengers not going to Dubai. About 85% of all EK passengers connect to other destinations.

Emirates has only competed directly with the Lufthansa, Air France, British airways types moving passengers between Europe, asia, africa and Aussie. Until now, the US Legacies are taking note.

I believe most legacies would open their doors to the stream of passengers being funneled into their domestic network from Emirates.


http://skift.com/2013/01/08/emirates-airlines-plans-for-taking-over-the-globe-part-one/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...e-a380-superjumbos-for-network-expansion.html

 

[Furloughed80]

I believe most legacies would open their doors to the stream of passengers being funneled into their domestic network from Emirates.

Why would they do that? UA is making a killing flying EWR to Mumbai and New Delhi. DL has an expansive network in Africa now. UA's IAH Lagos flight has also been very successful. Why would legacies be glad to outsource lucrative international routes to EK?

 

[Flyby1206]

Why would they do that? UA is making a killing flying EWR to Mumbai and New Delhi. DL has an expansive network in Africa now. UA's IAH Lagos flight has also been very successful. Why would legacies be glad to outsource lucrative international routes to EK?

Because they can. Same was said about the lucrative domestic market (zero foreign competition) and now it is all outsourced to RJs.

 

[8sugarsugar]

Why would they do that? UA is making a killing flying EWR to Mumbai and New Delhi. DL has an expansive network in Africa now. UA's IAH Lagos flight has also been very successful. Why would legacies be glad to outsource lucrative international routes to EK?

Simple, because it is MORE lucrative to outsource a better product, far cheaper.

Qantas was losing millions on international and were facing liquidation until Emirates stepped in. What exactly the deal, no one really knows, but it sounds like Qantas will be just a brand name with maybe 20 A380's left in Qantas colors, everything else would be Qantas domestic or JetStar.

 

[DHPFLYN]

Emirates coach is nothing to write home about. Their 1st class is a little better but not much. I have flown them both. A recent survey had Deltas 1st class ranked higher than Emirates. Delta 1st compared to Emirates Coach....not even close.

Delta first class better than Emirates?

You have to be kidding me. I must have missed something on the Delta flight. Emirates a private room with a huge TV with thousands of movies and music. My own little fridge with food and drinks when I want them. Some great food and drinks on the menu when I decide I want to eat. Throw in the 380 and there is a nice shower.

 

[General Lee]

quite the contrary, Emirates is expanding rapidly in Europe. Just added Lyon, New Castle, Warsaw, Barcelona, and Dublin.

Emirates has a lot to offer Governments. For example, trade between Texas and the UAE is in the $billions and Emirates is the bridge.

You are right about passengers not going to Dubai. About 85% of all EK passengers connect to other destinations.

Emirates has only competed directly with the Lufthansa, Air France, British airways types moving passengers between Europe, asia, africa and Aussie. Until now, the US Legacies are taking note.

I believe most legacies would open their doors to the stream of passengers being funneled into their domestic network from Emirates.


http://skift.com/2013/01/08/emirates-airlines-plans-for-taking-over-the-globe-part-one/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...e-a380-superjumbos-for-network-expansion.html

Jetblue and Alaska (turncoats) are interested, because they don't really have any INTL flights. The Legacies are a part of Alliances, and they get money from those airlines, connecting pax through Alliance partner hubs.

As far as expanding to Lyon, the Country of France meters your growth there. It's not unlimited. The UK has so far not metered it, but you are limited at LHR to the number of slots you can get. You may have 5, and that means 5 A380s. You also have a few 777s to LGW, that could be upguaged to A380s if needed. The other cities normally have one or two 777s, except MAN has an A380 in there too. That is how you can expand, just upguage, even if you can't get another slot. Warsaw was your latest city addition, with an A330. That seems to be a good fit because LOT isn't doing well, and the Polish people would like an avenue to SE Asia via DXB.

Emirates really hasn't affected the US Carriers yet, except with connections to Pakistan and India. They rely on Alliance partners in Europe to transfer pax to those countries, and Emirates gets them there through DXB. But, if US passengers want to go to Europe, they won't go to DXB first, so the ME carriers will never really be a huge threat. The European airports are mostly slot controlled and don't have a lot of extra gate space, just like the major US airports. You guys are looking at 120 or so A380s coming, and 100 more 777s? Where could they all go? If they affect the European airlines too much, there will probably be some protectionism going on at a larger scale, and that could mean trouble for someone getting that much heavy metal.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Furloughed80]

Because they can. Same was said about the lucrative domestic market (zero foreign competition) and now it is all outsourced to RJs.

I have never heard the term lucrative 'domestic market'. From my understanding legacies have generally lost money on their domestic networks.

Simple, because it is MORE lucrative to outsource a better product, far cheaper.

I am not privy to the exact numbers, but I find this assertion hard to believe. You are saying if EK flew EWR - Mumbai for UA, UA would make more money than flying the route themselves? I think this is wishful thinking on the part of an EK pilot.

Qantas was losing millions on international and were facing liquidation until Emirates stepped in. What exactly the deal, no one really knows, but it sounds like Qantas will be just a brand name with maybe 20 A380's left in Qantas colors, everything else would be Qantas domestic or JetStar.

DL made $1.6 billion last year (more than EK). With the AA/US merger, all legacies are projected to make over $1 billion a year. Our situation is not really comparable to Qantas. The recent consolidation has changed the US airline industry. The legacies are not what they used to be and the numbers don't lie.

 

[sniper]

Simple, because it is MORE lucrative to outsource a better product, far cheaper.

Qantas was losing millions on international and were facing liquidation until Emirates stepped in. What exactly the deal, no one really knows, but it sounds like Qantas will be just a brand name with maybe 20 A380's left in Qantas colors, everything else would be Qantas domestic or JetStar.[/QUOTE









WHAT? Cheaper , I thought Emirates does not get cheaper fuel and pay their pilots ... a lot more tha the Legacies.

 

[Whine Lover]

Mesa Sucks. (?)

 

[8sugarsugar]

Jetblue and Alaska (turncoats) are interested, because they don't really have any INTL flights. The Legacies are a part of Alliances, and they get money from those airlines, connecting pax through Alliance partner hubs.

As far as expanding to Lyon, the Country of France meters your growth there. It's not unlimited. The UK has so far not metered it, but you are limited at LHR to the number of slots you can get. You may have 5, and that means 5 A380s. You also have a few 777s to LGW, that could be upguaged to A380s if needed. The other cities normally have one or two 777s, except MAN has an A380 in there too. That is how you can expand, just upguage, even if you can't get another slot. Warsaw was your latest city addition, with an A330. That seems to be a good fit because LOT isn't doing well, and the Polish people would like an avenue to SE Asia via DXB.

Emirates really hasn't affected the US Carriers yet, except with connections to Pakistan and India. They rely on Alliance partners in Europe to transfer pax to those countries, and Emirates gets them there through DXB. But, if US passengers want to go to Europe, they won't go to DXB first, so the ME carriers will never really be a huge threat. The European airports are mostly slot controlled and don't have a lot of extra gate space, just like the major US airports. You guys are looking at 120 or so A380s coming, and 100 more 777s? Where could they all go? If they affect the European airlines too much, there will probably be some protectionism going on at a larger scale, and that could mean trouble for someone getting that much heavy metal.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Yes, there is some protectionism, but not as much as you think. The main subject keeping Emirates from expanding is aircraft deliveries and airspace issues in DXB. The carpet salesmen and pearl divers were very clever at obtaining two more slots into LHR that were owned by Qantas and leased back to British Airways. Later this year, they will have 7 daily A380 flights.

Back to the theme of this thread, 5th freedom. DXB is full, where else is EK going to put these aircraft? Until now, yes you were right, Emirates hasn't completed directly with US legacies. JFK-MXP competes directly with American and Delta.

 

[8sugarsugar]

In regards to aircraft deliveries, they had to pull their double daily Houston and LAX solely because they couldn't get aircraft fast enough before the start of Seattle, DFW and IAD. As more deliveries come, you will see most of those flights double up again.

There are billions of Indians that need to go somewhere.