Hawaiian Adding A321 Neos? Didn't See That One Coming...

[HighSpeedClimb]

Have you seen your interisland fares lately?? The people of Hawaii would welcome anyone who will reduce fares. That's just the fact, Hawaiiana or not

 

[Full of LUV]

They have in fact, negotiated a pay scale and work rules for that, it's being presented to the pilot group now and being voted on. Before you ask I'll wait till the vote is over. But it seems fair, not concessionary, just more growth and good pay rates..

I think someone at Boeing is having one giant HAL hangover seeing HAL go all BUS after their BK deal back yonder.....

 

[Dan Roman]

Just to expand on it. Do you really think UAL would want a hub in HNL that would add a bunch of new cities as non stop destinations to Hawaii? We'll be adding cities like Orange County. CO didn't do well there at all, yet Aloha killed it in that market. That's what I mean about the difference between a mainland carrier flying a route and a local carrier that specializes in flying people to Hawaii.

 

[Full of LUV]

Have you seen your interisland fares lately?? The people of Hawaii would welcome anyone who will reduce fares. That's just the fact, Hawaiiana or not

How bout developing a high speed ferry for inter-island use..... oh yeah they had that and ran it out of town on rails with botched political shenanigary..... Trust me, airfares are RIGHT where the powers to be want them to be... they in fact don't want Hawaiians to travel between their islands.... too much "tourism and traffic".
LUV

 

[Dan Roman]

Have you seen your interisland fares lately?? The people of Hawaii would welcome anyone who will reduce fares. That's just the fact, Hawaiiana or not

They are actually cheaper than an average SWA flight of the same stage length. Mesa/Go came over here touting CHEAP INTER-ISLAND tickets and fell flat on their face.
That said you're right inter-island tickets are a big political hot potato, but Hawaiian merging into a mainland carrier would reduce service and increase ticket prices. That's one of my reasons for saying it would be a hard sell politically.

 

[Full of LUV]

Your right that money talks, but people have been spreading rumors like that for years. Believe it or not, even AK pilots started that rumor once! As if AK management thinks they need an AirBus hub in Hawaii when their business plan calls for flying AK passengers to all the islands from all their mainland destinations. Hawaiian works as a stand alone carrier serving Hawaii, someone like UAL trying to buy it would have so much opposition locally and politically it would be ridiculous.

Dan is right. This state is one party rule, absolutely.... there is something like 5 repubs elected IN THE WHOLE STATE. I've lived in 6 states for more than 2 years and there is nothing quite like Hawaii politics. If you don't have the support of the machine, you will fail via the legislature, courts, unions, and public opinion eventually. Things like airport fees and local laws could be adjusted quickly as a protest. A takeover of HAL would require so many concessions to the local machine that it would leave the deal a lot less palatable than first glance of just buying an airline that has new airbuses with a hub in HNL.
LUV

 

[terryhfly]

They should just buy Frontier. They have lots of Neo's on order.

 

[nordo_2]

This order seems to run contrary to the allure, or model of HA: Twin aisle aircraft, to and from the mainland, offering more unique service. This would seem to me, to validate the efficiency model.

 

[cbrown1]

3,650nm, how close is that to the 757?

 

[curtaindriver]

The more Hawaiian grows the more Hawaiians route structure doesn't mesh with a mainland carrier. It would be a huge business decision for any airline to decide it wants a hub in HNL. Our business plan doesn't fit well with anyone.
If you merged Hawaiian into any other airline, most of what makes them successful would be gone. Passengers like Hawaiian because it's HAWAIIAN. Local Flight Attendants that are head and shoulders above the competition and an authentic Hawaiian atmosphere on board. We even have decent free food in coach. There would also be strong opposition politically. Hawaiian is a major employer in Hawaii and has tremendous growth planned that will benefit the State of Hawaii immensely, allowing that to disappear into a mainland airline and be lost would be a tough sell. Not to mention nobody in Hawaii wants it's inter-island transportation dependent on some mainland company to be the provider.
...and I'm just getting started!

I completely agree. I look at Hawaiian much like Alaska Airlines, created their niche.....in their region and completely dominate that said region. Nobody is gonna buy Alaska, and I believe Hawaiian is creating that same self-contained fortress Alaska enjoys.

Congrats on the order and growth, maybe see you in JFK some time.

CD

 

[n757st]

3,650nm, how close is that to the 757?

The 757 with winglets ~4100 miles from what I have read. There is no way in hell though that the NEO will make 3650 miles unless you touch down with the fuel guage reading zero with no wind. The 320 has an advertised range of 3200nm, in reality you don't push it past 2500nm + reserves + make me comfortable fuel with no wind. With winter winds our BOS-SFO is pushing it at 2350nm. The new wingletted A321 is going to be about 2700 nautical miles (including reserves and some "comfort fuel"), meaning the NEO will have an actual range of around ~3100nm at best.

 

[Full of LUV]

I completely agree. I look at Hawaiian much like Alaska Airlines, created their niche.....in their region and completely dominate that said region. Nobody is gonna buy Alaska, and I believe Hawaiian is creating that same self-contained fortress Alaska enjoys.

Congrats on the order and growth, maybe see you in JFK some time.

CD

Curtain,
Difference is Alaska is much more important to what DAL is trying to do than HAL. Even by DAL's mgmt's admission, if you didn't have Alaska code share, it would not be able to sustain international destinations out of SEA. DAL doesn't want to complete head to head with Alaska, but if that codeshare were in jeopardy, there would be money spent to either keep it in place or replace it.
LUV

 

[curtaindriver]

Curtain,
Difference is Alaska is much more important to what DAL is trying to do than HAL. Even by DAL's mgmt's admission, if you didn't have Alaska code share, it would not be able to sustain international destinations out of SEA. DAL doesn't want to complete head to head with Alaska, but if that codeshare were in jeopardy, there would be money spent to either keep it in place or replace it.
LUV

No argument here. I'm just saying some airlines are protected through the size and scope of their operation....i.e. DAL, UAL, LUV. Alaska doesn't have the size, but their presence is the northwest is dominating, and in after Wien stopped operations in the 80's Alaska is purely theirs. The parallel I was drawing was Hawaiian seems to enjoy some of the same geographic and demographic benefits Alaska has.

CD

 

[eaglesview]

I would have loved to see the 321 NEO at UAL. It is a far better product than that POS 737.

 

[igneousy2]

Great news for HA. I know many of the rank and file are affraid their 2-day SJC's at widebody rates are going to be a thing of the past once this airplane gets online but I think in the grand scheme of things, it will be great for HA.

I think it gives Hawaiian the ultimate 1-2 punch with the West Coast. I think all but the West Coast trunk markets (LAX-HNL,SFO-HNL, SEA-HNL) revert to at least some NB's. You can free up the WB's to try some mid-continent/East Coast Domestic, not to mention some new international routes that you otherwise wouldn't have the equipment for if you were still using the WB for OAK-OGG. You can also upgauge different markets depending on the day of the week. It also gives Hawaiian an intermediate airplane for the interisland market on the days that the increased capacity is justified (i.e. Pro Bowl weekend).

Anyway, I think SWA's answer to this Hawaii question is going to be to stay out of it all together, as this is shaping up to be an impending blood bath. The real question is, what Alaska's response will be-if any. Will it be to run at the first drop of blood in the water, or does the eskimo keep a secret stash of "whop-ass" in that beard of his that he is just waiting to bust out...and waiting...and waiting...