Shot at a legacy

[check six]

Majors guys:

Does a pilot stand a better chance getting to a legacy/major:

1. 1000 PIC on a 1900
2. 1000 PIC on a 135 Learjet
3. 2000 hours SIC in an RJ (because rj captains are sitting tight)

Thanks,

Check Six

 

[SAABaroowski]

I'm no major guy, I'm actually a 6,000 hr RJ FO, but of all you mentioned above, I would probably prefer to be the guy with TPIC 1900 time in a 121 airliner....

I think another good question, is for RJ FOs like myself stuck in the right seat, is it a better idea to go sit right seat at a National airline on an A-320 and still try for UAL/DAL, or sit tight and wait for an upgrade that may never come?

 

[Turtle21]

Determining the right choice in this biz will take some time to determine.... do you have 30 years?

 

[Chairman]

Suck it up get your 1000 PIC Turbine then go park yourself at a good place to wait it out. Watched many guys stay at Ameriflight or Lakes get there time while everyone was running to the regionals only to come to the regionals after them and get they legacy job before them because they could check the box. I didn't do this just got lucky being the the left seat when upgrades were quick and no one was hiring.

Chairman

 

[General Lee]

I think the PIC is best, and then 121 jet SIC next. I think the legacies will go after the guys with PIC first, but when they run out they will go for the rest. But, getting on at the beginning of a hiring wave is always better than at the end.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Jar Jar]

Just get a really dark tan and check some boxes on your app.

 

[Jetjockey]

Repeat after me,....... PIC is the key. Always has been, always will be.

 

[N1atEcon]

1000 pic in the 1900 or Lear part 135. Both have good qualities. Part 121 or a high performance jet flying at fl450, both are good but if I was hiring in would take the Lear guy.

 

[Phrogs4ever]

Sorry Jar Jar, there's no "box" to check on the applications.

Check Six, get your 1000 hours ME turbine PIC anyway you can and network. Getting calls for interviews is all about meeting mins and having recommendations.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Do the jobs no one else wants to do, live in the places no one else wants to live and in a couple of years folks will talk about how you "lucked" into a great job.

 

[airksk]

Get the turbine PIC however it comes, and network. I doubt it will matter in the long run where the PIC comes from as long as you meet the minimums, after that it's all about connections.
If it came down to 1900 vs Lear time, I'd go with the one that was a better fit for my situation, base wise, pay, schedule, etc... Either one would work.

 

[GogglesPisano]

You need (and not in any particular order):

1. 1,000 Turbine PIC.
2. To network (you'd be surprised how many old "acquaintances" are willing to help you out by spending 5 minutes composing an email.) This includes job fairs.
3. Be lucky.
4. Be perseverant.

It's been my experience that 1,000hrs in the right seat of a 747 is less impressive that the same number of hours in a left seat of a 1900 -- to legacy recruiters (may not be the case for non-sked 747 operators.)

 

[eaglesview]

Definately turbine PIC and fly the thing, do not be an autopilot operator. A couple of the CAL check airman I have run across have commented on newhires with great automation skills but not great hand flying skills. Oh and have a degree.

 

[SWAdude]

Majors guys:

Does a pilot stand a better chance getting to a legacy/major:

1. 1000 PIC on a 1900
2. 1000 PIC on a 135 Learjet
3. 2000 hours SIC in an RJ (because rj captains are sitting tight)

Thanks,

Check Six

There has been many good opinions shared already. You can tell that there is not a magic way to get a legacy flying job.

It is really difficult to say what the magic numbers are going to be once the majors start hiring again. But there are plenty of RJ pilots out there to easily fill the void majors will be having with this next hiring cycle. Given the timing of things I would think the time to build 1000 hrs TPIC time, instead of getting hired at a regional may be a waste of valuable time.

I would try and get on a regional that suits your needs and just ride the the upcoming wave. I predict the regional airlines are going to be direct feeds to the majors for many years to come.

Supply and demand has always been the controlling factor in what the average qualifications are needed to get any flying job.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Thats one possibility... Here is another. There are indeed thousands of equally well qualified RJ pilots who will be seeking employment at the majors. The downside is that all of their resumes will be similar. That 135 pilot or DC3 pilot or nonsked pilot may stand out a little more among the sea of blue suits and red ties. Who knows? Perhaps the customer service experience that a 135 pilot must master might make him (or her) stand out among the competition.

Just playing devils advocate.

 

[dicko]

You need (and not in any particular order):

1. 1,000 Turbine PIC.
2. To network (you'd be surprised how many old "acquaintances" are willing to help you out by spending 5 minutes composing an email.) This includes job fairs.
3. Be lucky.
4. Be perseverant.

It's been my experience that 1,000hrs in the right seat of a 747 is less impressive that the same number of hours in a left seat of a 1900 -- to legacy recruiters (may not be the case for non-sked 747 operators.)

What he said - Get your 1000 hours 121 PIC Turbine. Network for a 2nd tier Cargo gig flying wide body international. Spend some time accumulating the heavy international time. After a year or two there you'll have;

1. Wide body type rating
2. International experience
3. Hours in a jet, and
4. 121 Turbine PIC.

(if you don't get furloughed or go insane)

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

There has been many good opinions shared already. You can tell that there is not a magic way to get a legacy flying job.

It is really difficult to say what the magic numbers are going to be once the majors start hiring again. But there are plenty of RJ pilots out there to easily fill the void majors will be having with this next hiring cycle. Given the timing of things I would think the time to build 1000 hrs TPIC time, instead of getting hired at a regional may be a waste of valuable time.

I would try and get on a regional that suits your needs and just ride the the upcoming wave. I predict the regional airlines are going to be direct feeds to the majors for many years to come.

Supply and demand has always been the controlling factor in what the average qualifications are needed to get any flying job.

+1

With this lull in hiring the past 5 plus years, the experience level of the RJ pilots are going to far out weigh 1000 PIC turbo prop and 1000 SIC heavy.

 

[Andy]

I don't think that there's any magical experience formula.

I'd place networking higher than anything else. Letters of rec move your paperwork into the view of recruiters faster than any magical formula.

Look at joining a Guard/Reserve unit and working into a pilot training slot. Most Guard/Reserve units are full of airline pilots.

And don't be a dooshbag. Aviation is a much smaller business than people think. I run into people I know from 25 years ago on a regular basis.

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

And don't be a dooshbag. Aviation is a much smaller business than people think. I run into people I know from 25 years ago on a regular basis.

This is probably the most important aspect of getting an airline job. You burn the wrong bridge, it does not matter how many think you are a great guy at an airline, piss off the wrong person and you are done. No kidding.

 

[Bringupthebird]

"You tick one person off, you've ticked off 100". USAPA has the motto copywritten.

 

[General Lee]

This is probably the most important aspect of getting an airline job. You burn the wrong bridge, it does not matter how many think you are a great guy at an airline, piss off the wrong person and you are done. No kidding.

For a US legacy, Yes, try not to piss anyone off locally, but thanks to the global pilot shortage, there will be jobs available all over the globe, and people in the ME don't care who you pissed off at your Guard unit 15 years ago. The jobs are out there, you just have to open your mind. The big deal is not to have any FAA problems. Those are harder to explain.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

For a US legacy, Yes, try not to piss anyone off locally, but thanks to the global pilot shortage, there will be jobs available all over the globe, and people in the ME don't care who you pissed off at your Guard unit 15 years ago. The jobs are out there, you just have to open your mind. The big deal is not to have any FAA problems. Those are harder to explain.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Are you freakin serious! Your advice is don't worry about pissing anyone off if your dream is to commute to China?

Oh lord you are way off your meds now. Don't listen to anything this guy gives as "advice".:uzi:

 

[General Lee]

Are you freakin serious! Your advice is don't worry about pissing anyone off if your dream is to commute to China?

Oh lord you are way off your meds now. Don't listen to anything this guy gives as "advice".:uzi:

There you go again, only thinking locally. It's what you guys do. Anyway, I never said make people mad, but rather there are OPTIONS outside of the Corndog, which is now even more obvious because of your certain stagnation coming up here. My point is that if you do accidentally make someone mad, and somehow that follows you around here, you can go elsewhere. If you commute to China, then that is YOUR fault. Only you would come up with that, primarily because you fly intra Texas all the time and you don't know anything else probably.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

There you go again, only thinking locally. It's what you guys do. Anyway, I never said make people mad, but rather there are OPTIONS outside of the Corndog, which is now even more obvious because of your certain stagnation coming up here. My point is that if you do accidentally make someone mad, and somehow that follows you around here, you can go elsewhere. If you commute to China, then that is YOUR fault. Only you would come up with that, primarily because you fly intra Texas all the time and you don't know anything else probably.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Seriously. You have a major comprehension problem. And you just can't help but to bring out the SWA hate every annoying time.

We all know you are not strong enough to handle our kind of flying.

 

[igneousy2]

I have recently learned some things about the decision process at both Hawaiian and Alaska. One thing that has happened in the last 5 years is that the HR departments at both respective airlines have gained an even stronger hold on the hiring process. Aside from the degree, time mins, already mentioned here, both of these airlines like to see VOLUNTEER/COMMUNITY SERVICE time. There are hundreds if not thousands of pilots applying out there right now with 5,000 hours JET with 2,000 PIC jet, so now they have to differentiate, and the high scorer right now is volunter/community service.

 

[kj6991]

1. Network
2. Network
3. Network
4. Get the 1000 TPIC in whatever airplane pays you more and allows you to be home more.

 

[Quimby]

I don't think that there's any magical experience formula.

I'd place networking higher than anything else. Letters of rec move your paperwork into the view of recruiters faster than any magical formula.

Look at joining a Guard/Reserve unit and working into a pilot training slot. Most Guard/Reserve units are full of airline pilots.

And don't be a dooshbag. Aviation is a much smaller business than people think. I run into people I know from 25 years ago on a regular basis.

1900 PIC versus Lear PIC. Whoever is less of a db wins. Flying is easy. You can't teach how to not be a db.

 

[Dan Roman]

I don't think that there's any magical experience formula.

I'd place networking higher than anything else. Letters of rec move your paperwork into the view of recruiters faster than any magical formula.

Look at joining a Guard/Reserve unit and working into a pilot training slot. Most Guard/Reserve units are full of airline pilots.

And don't be a dooshbag. Aviation is a much smaller business than people think. I run into people I know from 25 years ago on a regular basis.

Very well said.

 

[Dan Roman]

I have recently learned some things about the decision process at both Hawaiian and Alaska. One thing that has happened in the last 5 years is that the HR departments at both respective airlines have gained an even stronger hold on the hiring process. Aside from the degree, time mins, already mentioned here, both of these airlines like to see VOLUNTEER/COMMUNITY SERVICE time. There are hundreds if not thousands of pilots applying out there right now with 5,000 hours JET with 2,000 PIC jet, so now they have to differentiate, and the high scorer right now is volunter/community service.

Also very well said.
HA has hired a lot and is gearing up to hire even more. I know for a fact they are hiring from all different background scenarios intentionally. Ex ALPA pilots who have lost their job, ex military, RJ pilots (some who are ex FO's, not all are ex Captains, most are though) locals with recs and some with no recs who lucked out on timing, a lot of guys from Asian carriers, etc.
I fly with these pilots, HA has hired a lot of really good people that are very good pilots. That said, they have been unable to hire all the good one's and many were turned down the first time but didn't give up.
It's a crap shoot, if you don't give up the more likely you are to win.

 

[Furloughed80]

I thought HA emphasized hiring only locals; is that just a false rumor?