CL-30 Speculation?

[LongBoarder]

No weight increase? What's the typical "full fuel" pax load? -4?

I do not know what our BOW is yet, but I have been told that they are all right around 24,000# and the MRamp is 39,k MTOW is 38,850 and the max fuel is 14,500. I am guessing that we might be a little more, only because of 3 life rafts and the larger bottle.

SF

 

[t-bone]

No weight increase? What's the typical "full fuel" pax load? -4?

~3 is right. Our BOWs are all right around 24300. Full fuel is 14150. Flying within the CONUS you'll find it a rare day that you need to top it off. East-west transcons with a full boat have yet to be an issue.

 

[Bleeds On]

If they add tanks for extra range, a MTOW increase is an absolute must. Entirely pointless otherwise. And if they increase MTOW, they'll have to increase MLW or add a fuel dump feature. Whatever they do, I'd go for a paper blessing for all these increases. On a side note, they now have a Link 2000+ solution ready. Cost depends on SN.

 

[t-bone]

Link 2000+?

Agreed on the MTOW increase...

 

[ttflyer]

~3 is right. Our BOWs are all right around 24300. Full fuel is 14150. Flying within the CONUS you'll find it a rare day that you need to top it off. East-west transcons with a full boat have yet to be an issue.

Yeah, ours are sub 24K, but they are early SNs... And they aren't exactly full seats / full fuel kind of airplanes. They also go out of the CG envelope aft limit before they hit MGTOW if you're not careful. I'd imagine newer (heavier) airplanes don't have that particular problem though.

My point is that if our early SNs are only 4 pax + full fuel airplanes, what happens when they add all the "new" stuff and don't increase the weight? Just curious..

 

[Bleeds On]

Link 2000+?

Agreed on the MTOW increase...

http://www.eurocontrol.int/services/link-2000-programme

In short, CPDLC req't for EU ops above FL285 as 7 Feb, '13(if you have a newer aircraft). VHF based IIRC whereas FANS 1/A is Sat.

 

[Sammy]

Spoke with writer from BC&A at NBAA who flew the G280. Said The 280 is the new benchmark for the supermid's. Just a supreme plane! A real Gulfstream in his words. The level of the block upgrade from Bombardier will depend on how well the 280 sales progress. However, if the CL300 is to remain the #1 supermid, it will need the Proline Fusion, auto throttles, more range, perhaps autobrakes and all the NextGen stuff.

 

[jonjuan]

Spoke with writer from BC&A at NBAA who flew the G280. Said The 280 is the new benchmark for the supermid's. Just a supreme plane! A real Gulfstream in his words. The level of the block upgrade from Bombardier will depend on how well the 280 sales progress. However, if the CL300 is to remain the #1 supermid, it will need the Proline Fusion, auto throttles, more range, perhaps autobrakes and all the NextGen stuff.

The dropped aisle is a big turnoff for many/most pax (not writers) as well as the lack of ramp presence relative to the CL300. Also with a 2-3 Million price delta, the owners often care more about the price than what's in the flight deck.

 

[LJ45]

Spoke with writer from BC&A at NBAA who flew the G280. Said The 280 is the new benchmark for the supermid's. Just a supreme plane! A real Gulfstream in his words. The level of the block upgrade from Bombardier will depend on how well the 280 sales progress. However, if the CL300 is to remain the #1 supermid, it will need the Proline Fusion, auto throttles, more range, perhaps autobrakes and all the NextGen stuff.

Heard something about the gear doors don't close all the way, design problem?

 

[Sammy]

The dropped aisle is a big turnoff for many/most pax (not writers) as well as the lack of ramp presence relative to the CL300. Also with a 2-3 Million price delta, the owners often care more about the price than what's in the flight deck.

Expect the official announcement at EBACE.

 

[pair_of_pratts]

Heard something about the gear doors don't close all the way, design problem?

If you are talking about the G280, the main gear doors probably droop slightly when the gear is down; a leftover from the G200. With the gear up, they close flush with the fuselage. Never figured out why, but its all part of the design.

 

[Sammy]

The latest issue of Business and Commercial Aviation has an article on the CL300. Said block upgrade will have IRU's, SVS (Proline 21) and other avionic upgrades. No mention of more range, auto throttles and autobrakes.

 

[CelticCitation]

Just read that. Interesting that no change of range is mentioned. More efficient engines, more efficient winglets, same range?

 

[Bleeds On]

Just read that. Interesting that no change of range is mentioned. More efficient engines, more efficient winglets, same range?

Devil's in the details. They allow the same range at the new higher weight, according to BCA.

 

[Sammy]

Can u explain more? Higher zero fuel weight?

 

[Bleeds On]

From BCA(not the write-up but a snippet a few pages prior on page 48), Max ramp 40,750, MTOW 40,600, and MLW 34,150. Previous was 39,000, 38,850 and 33,750 respectively. Snippet says mid-2013 for the upgrade but main write-up says with SN405. It's too bad that the MLW is still so low.
Other stated upgrades are Collins PL Evolution w/ dual IRS, synthetic vision, multiscan radar, and WAAS LPV FMS.

 

[CelticCitation]

Too bad that 1750 lbs. isn't fuel. That would be another hour of fuel, 400-500 nm of range.

 

[Sammy]

Proline Evolution, dual IRS, SVS, low profile/drag winglets, HTF 7300, link 2000+, CPDLC, ADS. Also of note: it INITIALLY will not be offered with autobrakes, auto throttles or HUD. Which must mean they have plans to include these offerings. All this was in the latest BCA magazine.

 

[ultrarunner]

The avionics enhancements are just that. When auto throttles, auto brakes, winglet enhancements, etc... are introduced, there will like be a new aircraft designation which coincides with the NJA delivered aircraft. What, if any, of those "NJA" enhancements are eligible for retrofit remains to be seen...

 

[osy007]

What would be awesome is an autopilot that dosent fly the plane like drunken grizzly bear would. Worst Autopilot Ever!

Phew, thought it was just my a/c..Glad to hear that it's just every 300!