United and L-XJT

[OCP]

Looks like L-XJT should be looking pretty hard at getting a contract done so they can get a single list.

http://centreforaviation.com/analys...-in-continued-us-regional-consolidation-32650


"The new agreement includes the current CPA fleet of 206 XJT Embraer 145 aircraft for a 10-year term with five years of rate protection and a 2015 rate reset. The scheduled reduction of XJT’s fleet to 190 aircraft goes away with the new deal, according to Vice President Finance and Treasurer Mike Kraupp, who added that the Continental Express fleet could grow to 221 since the new agreement allows for 15 additional growth aircraft to be added during the term of the contract.

It also includes the ability to replace 75 aircraft, likely with larger regional jets should Continental obtain scope relief from pilots or, perhaps the Q400, if it does not, as rival Pinnacle is banking on with its large Q400 orders.

“The aircraft could be either or,” said Kraupp. “What we have to wait and see is what happens with scope between the United and Continental merger. That could mean additional larger gauge turboprops or larger gauge regional jets. But what we have done is create the rights to that business if that is what Continental wants us to do.”"

 

[RJLoser]

Sorry, PCL is going to be the big Q operator for United.

 

[veneratio]

Minimum 50 seat aircraft that United will operate will be 125 + 75 replacement aircraft. Not much should change until 2016.

 

[OCP]

But who will fly 76 seat jets? ASA side already has everything they need to fly them. Will LXJT side furlough to the bottom of the ASA side if they lose a 50 seat jet replaced with a 76 seat CRJ?

 

[CRJ puppy]

Looks like L-XJT should be looking pretty hard at getting a contract done so they can get a single list.

http://centreforaviation.com/analys...-in-continued-us-regional-consolidation-32650


"The new agreement includes the current CPA fleet of 206 XJT Embraer 145 aircraft for a 10-year term with five years of rate protection and a 2015 rate reset. The scheduled reduction of XJT’s fleet to 190 aircraft goes away with the new deal, according to Vice President Finance and Treasurer Mike Kraupp, who added that the Continental Express fleet could grow to 221 since the new agreement allows for 15 additional growth aircraft to be added during the term of the contract.

It also includes the ability to replace 75 aircraft, likely with larger regional jets should Continental obtain scope relief from pilots or, perhaps the Q400, if it does not, as rival Pinnacle is banking on with its large Q400 orders.

“The aircraft could be either or,” said Kraupp. “What we have to wait and see is what happens with scope between the United and Continental merger. That could mean additional larger gauge turboprops or larger gauge regional jets. But what we have done is create the rights to that business if that is what Continental wants us to do.”"

Nice quote of a 2+ yr old article that is basically useless info at this point in time.

 

[veneratio]

But who will fly 76 seat jets? ASA side already has everything they need to fly them. Will LXJT side furlough to the bottom of the ASA side if they lose a 50 seat jet replaced with a 76 seat CRJ?

Eventually the lists will merge so it does not matter.

 

[centralpilot]

But who will fly 76 seat jets? ASA side already has everything they need to fly them. Will LXJT side furlough to the bottom of the ASA side if they lose a 50 seat jet replaced with a 76 seat CRJ?

If the replacement is operating under L-XJT CPA, then no they won't do that. If they play games with the CPAs to get around the TPA I don't think they'll like the outcome.

 

[Nevets]

If the replacement is operating under L-XJT CPA, then no they won't do that. If they play games with the CPAs to get around the TPA I don't think they'll like the outcome.

At least one ASA pilot gets it and isn't using flame bait to scare us into not agreeing to a concessionary contract. The only way around the TPA is for Skywest to get UAL to renegotiate a whole new and separate CPA for the ASA side (and I wouldn't bet that that is legit either). Otherwise, if they exercise these clauses in the current CPA, those additional and larger aircraft are required to go to the LXJT side. Doesn't matter to me. I've got plan B and working on plan C.

 

[OCP]

Nice quote of a 2+ yr old article that is basically useless info at this point in time.

The article is old, but the provisions about larger aircraft if United relaxes scope are still relevant. That is the reason for quoting what I did, then sighting the entire article as a source.

 

[OCP]

At least one ASA pilot gets it and isn't using flame bait to scare us into not agreeing to a concessionary contract. The only way around the TPA is for Skywest to get UAL to renegotiate a whole new and separate CPA for the ASA side (and I wouldn't bet that that is legit either). Otherwise, if they exercise these clauses in the current CPA, those additional and larger aircraft are required to go to the LXJT side. Doesn't matter to me. I've got plan B and working on plan C.

Where does it say that if leases expire that hey have to replace the ERJ with another A/C flown by LXJC?
Any actual source you can point to?
I say this because if it does not actually say that they can't do that, then Skywest will do whatever they want.

 

[centralpilot]

Where does it say that if leases expire that hey have to replace the ERJ with another A/C flown by LXJC?
Any actual source you can point to?
I say this because if it does not actually say that they can't do that, then Skywest will do whatever they want.

The L-XJT CPA does have replacement rights for a number of aircraft under the 10 year term. It is possible that the ERJs with expiring leases get parked without replacement. It is possible that SKYW could negotiate a new CPA on the L-ASA side for additional UA flying.

However, SKYW has to know that if the go down that road the pilot morale, productivity, etc will turn sour quickly. The same threat existed per-merger. I have no desire to see our pilot groups played against one another. Hopefully we can get this contract done soon, merge the lists, then possibly work on combining with SKYW pilots to reduce whipsaw threats and maximize leverage.

 

[OCP]

The L-XJT CPA does have replacement rights for a number of aircraft under the 10 year term. It is possible that the ERJs with expiring leases get parked without replacement. It is possible that SKYW could negotiate a new CPA on the L-ASA side for additional UA flying.

However, SKYW has to know that if the go down that road the pilot morale, productivity, etc will turn sour quickly. The same threat existed per-merger. I have no desire to see our pilot groups played against one another. Hopefully we can get this contract done soon, merge the lists, then possibly work on combining with SKYW pilots to reduce whipsaw threats and maximize leverage.

Agree on all parts. However the thing I disagree with... Were you at ASA after Skywest bought us? They have no problem with pilot morale being in the Sh!Ter. In a threat to shrink us before the contract we have they transferred aircraft from ASA to Skywest because we wouldn't take what they were telling us to take.
They have already tried to transfer aircraft from ASA to Skywest after the leases expired at ASA. We have language that kept them from doing that, but they still tried.

 

[Nevets]

Where does it say that if leases expire that hey have to replace the ERJ with another A/C flown by LXJC?
Any actual source you can point to?
I say this because if it does not actually say that they can't do that, then Skywest will do whatever they want.

The transition and process agreement.

Agree on all parts. However the thing I disagree with... Were you at ASA after Skywest bought us? They have no problem with pilot morale being in the Sh!Ter. In a threat to shrink us before the contract we have they transferred aircraft from ASA to Skywest because we wouldn't take what they were telling us to take.
They have already tried to transfer aircraft from ASA to Skywest after the leases expired at ASA. We have language that kept them from doing that, but they still tried.

The difference being that you guys were getting a better contract back then. Today, "you" and presumably management, wants us to agree to a concessionary contract in order to facilitate the clauses in the CPA and the new UAL contract. Management would much rather we agree on their proposed joint contract than to go down any other road. That gives us a little leverage unless our partners on the LASA leave us at the alter. Filling for an annulment is probably a better analogy but you get the point. As Central Pilot said, we need to stick together so that none of us take any concession on this new contract.

 

[OCP]

http://asamec.alpa.org/portals/32/publiccontent/committees/communications/02012011_TPA_Pending.pdf

Does XJT have their own agreement about transfer of aircraft to a "Skywest" company? Acording to this, it seems aircraft can be transfered as long as positions are offered to the pilots. (ASA agreement)
It all still seems very vague on a lease return, and then a replacement with other aircraft.

Granted I am not privy to any of the meetings between Unions and company, but from what our MEC tells us is the MECs can't agree enough to present some things to the company.
What are the concessionary things that the XJT MEC is telling you that are concessionary?

 

[wms]

http://asamec.alpa.org/portals/32/publiccontent/committees/communications/02012011_TPA_Pending.pdf

Does XJT have their own agreement about transfer of aircraft to a "Skywest" company? Acording to this, it seems aircraft can be transfered as long as positions are offered to the pilots. (ASA agreement)
It all still seems very vague on a lease return, and then a replacement with other aircraft.

Granted I am not privy to any of the meetings between Unions and company, but from what our MEC tells us is the MECs can't agree enough to present some things to the company.
What are the concessionary things that the XJT MEC is telling you that are concessionary?

That no longer applies. The TPA added a clause that excludes aircraft returned to the lessor. When aircraft went from ASA to skyw for LCC, they went through the bank so pilots didn't have to go iaw the cba. They will use this clause also when erjs are replaced with CRJ700&900s.

 

[amcnd]

The "clause" is a starting piont "SkyWest inc" will negotiate from there, just like they did with the Delta Comair swap.. I can see this happening way more then just as written in the L-XJT deal right now.. SkyWest Inc is looking for "long term" solutions..( Straight from the company news letter... )...I see them working with United for a long term solution.. Not just a 75 plane swap out...

 

[Flyer1015]

as rival Pinnacle is banking on with its large Q400 orders.

Pinnacle has large Q400 orders? Since when?

 

[HelloNewman]

I simply LOL at regional pilots that actually think they have a say in their future.

 

[Nevets]

That no longer applies. The TPA added a clause that excludes aircraft returned to the lessor. When aircraft went from ASA to skyw for LCC, they went through the bank so pilots didn't have to go iaw the cba. They will use this clause also when erjs are replaced with CRJ700&900s.

The difference is that your 200s were actually transferred and ended up at Skywest. The ERJs will be parked. But if they do end up using those ERJs for something after their leases expire, i don't see them giving them to ASA or SKW to operate. The replacement aircraft clause still stands. It's part of the CPA regardless of when the ERJs get parked. That's the whole point of that clause, to replace our expiring ERJs. Skywest new these leases were expiring starting next year and that is why they negotiated that clause in our CPA.

 

[B.T.Justice]

Dont you think SKYW could sign a new deal for growth aircraft, and agree to terminate the old CPA? We had a deal with DL through 2016 to fly all of our 200's, but contracts get cancelled and superseded by new agreements.