Replacement AC SWA 717 to DL

[GIZMONC]

Only 11 FL 737's will be converted this year. The 42 other FL 737's will be used for international flying until the end of 2014 . In 2015 the 42 FL 737's will be used to replace the 42 737-300 being held to cover 717 off load. From what I understand for every 6 717's, off loaded 3 737-300's and 1 737-800 will be the replacement. WN has pushed out somewhere around 50 planned 737-300 retirements that where scheduled 2013 and 2014 until 2015 and 2016. The 737-300 retirements plus planned 737-800 deliveries will replace the 717's then the 42 remaining FL 737 birds will replace the WN 737-300 in 2014 2015. NO new additional planes other than the current 737-800 planned delivery in 2013 and 2014. This year out of the 53 FL 737-700'S only 11 will be converted to WN. The remaining 42 FL 737-700's will be used for international operations until the end of 2014 and 2015. Once the 717 off load to Delta is done and WN new reservations system up and running. WN will start to transition FL international flying to WN the 42 FL remaining 737-700 will be converted into WN. These 42 737-700 will replace the 42 737-300 retirement that where pushed out to replace the 717's.

6 - 717 = 702 seats

3 -737-300 = 429 seats ( providing they get Evolve interiors)

1 -737-800 = 175 seats NET LOSS 98 seats total

 

[Whine Lover]

I'm sorry....we were told there would be no math here.

 

[scoreboardII]

I'll say it, it's all AirTran pilots fault for being so enticingly valuable.

 

[Old School 737]

Would have been easier / better but way more expensive to buy Alaska than AirTran ...

 

[Ty Webb]

I'll say it, it's all AirTran pilots fault for being so enticingly valuable.

Plus, we're charming and delightful.

 

[humveedriver]

I think that was last weeks plan. The latest union update we got tonight said, look for one class a month in 2013 that gets ramped up to 2 classes or more. Said we should all be done by "next" July which I interpreted to mean July 2014. So that would mean parking 717s in order to do that. Would be neat to see SWA get serious about the integration from the pilot side of the house.

 

[PanPan]

Actually it said: From now until next July, expect training bids of one class per month, increasing to two or more per month until AirTran is completely dissolved.

I think they mean classes will increase to two or more a month starting in July. That lines up with what was told to us in recurrent a week ago.

 

[Full of LUV]

I'll say it, it's all AirTran pilots fault for being so enticingly valuable.

It's SWA/SWAPA fault for keeping them that way..... Airtran pilots are SWA's "labor hedge" for the next few years now that the fuel hedges have run their course.

 

[Lear70]

Actually it said: From now until next July, expect training bids of one class per month, increasing to two or more per month until AirTran is completely dissolved.

I think they mean classes will increase to two or more a month starting in July. That lines up with what was told to us in recurrent a week ago.

That's correct, except that in some months as the 717 starts going away there will be two classes per month until July. That's in the letter from Russ as well that's in your eDocs on Flica (look at the number of pilots per month, when it's 48 instead of 24, that's two classes per month staggered 2 weeks apart).

Was just in the union office two days ago after my PC doing CCC stuff and was discussing this issue with our new NC chair and attorney, mainly that the glacial pace of pilot transfers is resulting in heavy overstaffing here and how that will change with the desk letter that just came out (only affects summer month staffing), the class transitions next year through July, and the busy summer months and subsequent fall-off next September (it won't be as dramatic as it was this year when almost half the airline was on reserve).

We stil don't have an idea of how they're going to get it done with the number of people we'll have left at AirTran after June (they'll have to go to AT LEAST 3 classes per month) or what they're going to do with the 717's that still have to transition to Delta in 2015.

Basically the DR process continues as mentioned in the letter last night and there's nothing new to report.

 

[Lear70]

Only 11 FL 737's will be converted this year. The 42 other FL 737's will be used for international flying until the end of 2014 . In 2015 the 42 FL 737's will be used to replace the 42 737-300 being held to cover 717 off load.

That's not entirely correct.

Those 42 FL 737's will be coming across the partition in the last half of 2014. There won't be any on-property at AAI on 1/1/15. This, of course, assuming the Int'l Res system comes up on-schedule and with an outside vendor being utilized, there's no reason to think it won't.

From what I understand for every 6 717's, off loaded 3 737-300's and 1 737-800 will be the replacement.

Source? Haven't heard any of that.

WN has pushed out somewhere around 50 planned 737-300 retirements that where scheduled 2013 and 2014 until 2015 and 2016.

Again, source? Haven't heard a firm retirement date on any of the Classics that had their retirement deferred.

The 737-300 retirements plus planned 737-800 deliveries will replace the 717's then the 42 remaining FL 737 birds will replace the WN 737-300 in 2014 2015.

Not really following you here. Your math says -6 717's and -3 Classics = -9 hulls plus adding 1 -800 is a total LOSS of 8 aircraft, how does that "replace" lost 717's?

NO new additional planes other than the current 737-800 planned delivery in 2013 and 2014. This year out of the 53 FL 737-700'S only 11 will be converted to WN.

As previously-planned and mentioned on here. 86 total -800's coming in 2012, 2013, and 2014, 88 717's leaving in 2013, 2014, and 2015.

The remaining 42 FL 737-700's will be used for international operations until the end of 2014 and 2015.

Source? SWA management brief to us as of 2 days ago was still on track for SWA to take over our Int'l cities by the end of 2014 on-schedule.

Once the 717 off load to Delta is done and WN new reservations system up and running. WN will start to transition FL international flying to WN the 42 FL remaining 737-700 will be converted into WN. These 42 737-700 will replace the 42 737-300 retirement that where pushed out to replace the 717's.

Again, this is not what we were told as of just a couple days ago. Source, please? Because, if true, AAI will end up holding on to several hundred CA seats. On 1/1/15, if they're still a CA, they stay CA because of their ability to bid 737 SWA CA on transition after 1/1/15 per the SIA.

6 - 717 = 702 seats

3 -737-300 = 429 seats ( providing they get Evolve interiors)

1 -737-800 = 175 seats NET LOSS 98 seats total

If that's the schedule, then yes, as the last of the 717's go away to Delta in 2015 and if what you're saying is correct (excluding the dates) and they start retiring 50 or so Classics at 3 per month in 2015 and 2016, then in 2015 we will start a pretty sizable decrease in total lift in the system as well as total hulls, barring an additional -800 delivery schedule that offsets it.

Not pretty if true. Personally, I didn't think the Classic retirement would be that aggressive or start that soon without an additional delivery schedule of -800's from Boeing to offset the loss of that many ASM's.

 

[Daddy]

This, of course, assuming the Int'l Res system comes up on-schedule and with an outside vendor being utilized, there's no reason to think it won't.

With all due respect, Lear....we all have EVERY reason to believe this will not happen on schedule. SWA's IT capability (or lack thereof) has been crippling this company for years. They have consistently failed to fix this Achilles heel for years. It is an embarrassment that a company of this size and status is so inept with IT. You will be amazed when you come over how much of a bare bones operation it is at SWA IT-wise. I fully expect a fumble on the one yard line on this one....I will be shocked if it is up and running and working on time.

 

[Lear70]

This, of course, assuming the Int'l Res system comes up on-schedule and with an outside vendor being utilized, there's no reason to think it won't.

With all due respect, Lear....we all have EVERY reason to believe this will not happen on schedule. SWA's IT capability (or lack thereof) has been crippling this company for years. They have consistently failed to fix this Achilles heel for years. It is an embarrassment that a company of this size and status is so inept with IT. You will be amazed when you come over how much of a bare bones operation it is at SWA IT-wise. I fully expect a fumble on the one yard line on this one....I will be shocked if it is up and running and working on time.

What amazes me is that the SWA IT department is literally, and I'm not kidding here, 100 TIMES the size of AAI's IT department. I'm assuming it's because SWA developed and owns (and must maintain) all the (current) computer programs it is utilizing but, still one wonders whether the overhead in terms of cost of employees, etc, is worth not using outside vendors like we do.

We've heard that Sabre can't handle the flight load (they do just fine with AA so I somewhat question that), and other reasons why, but it still seems strange.

That said, the only reason I think it MIGHT happen somewhat on-schedule is that they are using an outside vendor. It's not being developed by SWA IT, it's being developed by someone else. Now whether they can IMPLEMENT the system timely is the big question in my mind, but that's down the road a ways...

 

[Daddy]

I can virtually guarantee that if the SWA IT department is even peripherally involved, that it will be an unmitigated disaster.

 

[CHQ Pilot]

From talking with some IT people, it seems it is the SWA computer system that is the problem and not the people. They are doing their best to work with a system that should have been replaced in the early 90s. SWA is so heavily invested on a non-upgradeable system, that to change is a monumental task. Just to keep up has pushed the system to points that it was never designed. Something has to change, but I don't think it's going to be painless when it does.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Lear. I was told yesterday that 8 to 10 b737 will go over in 2013. leaving around 30 -32 planes left to transfer over in 2014. That's from the Trn. Dept. too. So looks like there should be Trn. Slots for both airplanes for the rest of the year. But who really knows.

 

[Lear70]

Lear. I was told yesterday that 8 to 10 b737 will go over in 2013. leaving around 30 -32 planes left to transfer over in 2014. That's from the Trn. Dept. too. So looks like there should be Trn. Slots for both airplanes for the rest of the year. But who really knows.

Yep, sounds pretty close. From what we were told, they were waiting to start the take over of the SJU base before they pulled the trigger on a firm number of 737's for 2013.

The first class bid for 2013 just closed last week. The rest of MCO will shut down sometime between July and September (I'm guessing the latter), with a few 737 classes until the 717's start going away, then mostly 717 guys who bid 737 F/O with a few 737 people thrown in through the Spring and early Summer.

At least, that's what the training flow from Russ M shows and still is being adhered to. All subject to change, of course.

 

[Citrusflyer]

The odd part (one of them) is the 737 (CA/FO) to 717 (CA/FO) back to 737 SWA FO. Don't see how that works, according to the 'current' plan. The 717 is drawing down faster than the 737. The 717 sim time is vanishing (as of March) down to almost nothing available. Yet the plan plainly states that those who bid off the 737 to the 717 will complete training on the 717 prior to being allowed over the fence to SWA (back to the 737). Someone see something I don't?

 

[Lear70]

We'll see what they do. I have my bets and I've expressed them to counsel and our MEC Chairman, but we'll see what actually happens.

 

[scoreboardII]

Ok, so what are they...

 

[4day]

Anyone thought about the SIM time problem. DELTA wants all the SIM time starting in FEB, we still have to do PC/PT for the 717 with 30% RSV coverage and train all the guys who will come back to the 717 for a few months then retrain on the 737. Is there only 3 SIM's left or am I wrong? I don't see DELTA training from 12-4am. That will be the new Airtran train slot.