Virgin America 2Q loss $31.7 million

[Flyer1015]

Getting rid of the walmarts of the industry will mean better jobs for those that remain. I assume you don't support the undercutting?

Who do you fly for?

 

[tzskipper]

It's probably got a little to do with the "they'll work for peanuts, why won't you?" thing. Spare us the "lost jobs" B.S. Everyone who whored themselves out to Sir Dick had a job when they bent over for a bigger jet.

You mean like the Aloha, Midex, ABX and ATA folks?

S

 

[UM#1]

You mean like the Aloha, Midex, ABX and ATA folks?

S

and World, North American, USA 3000, Southern, Evergreen, ASTAR, Champion, Miami Air, Omni, Ryan Air, and many other refugees with 1000's of hours of experience in large jets....

 

[pilotpm]

It's probably got a little to do with the "they'll work for peanuts, why won't you?" thing. Spare us the "lost jobs" B.S. Everyone who whored themselves out to Sir Dick had a job when they bent over for a bigger jet.

Your name really does fit. You are a tard.

 

[livin'thesim]

Free markets solve more problems than they create. The strong survive, the weak fail.

I'm sure plenty of you communists would love regulation to return, as long as you were in the minority that remained employed.

Those who would lose their jobs? "Taking one for the Team", right?

Here's a clue for some of you bedwetters:

Companies exist to drive the economy, not to guarantee good pilot jobs. Do you cry for manufacturers when they have to drop the price of their goods in order to compete with lower-priced products?

The aviation industry exists for the public good, to provide the maximum number of citizens access to air travel, not so that self-important pilots can earn high salaries.

I am a union pilot, and believe me, I will try to earn as much as I can, and will use every lawful means to increase my compensation.

But I can't fault company owners and stockholders for trying to do the same thing themselves. If People's Express is starting up again, they should do so to make a profit for their owners, not so that pilots (most of whom think the world revolves around them) can make money.

You will make what the market determines. Think you should make more? Go for it, I hope you do. But don't whine when other people attempt to maximize the return on their own investment.

Look at the effeminate and petulantly childish europeans - they feel entitled to high wages, large pensions, long vacations, and 100% job security. What a bunch of babies.

And in their typical adolescent minds, "the rich" and "big corporations" have unlimited funds to make their desired lifestyle possible. This is just envy, plain and simple.

Life isn't fair. If this bothers you, then move to another planet.

 

[hammer2]

Capitalism would work a lot better if slavery were still around. Market forces Yada Yada Yada. Let's at least bring back child labor. Slacker children. Get a job - you're seven years old for chrissakes!

Your mother still keeps you on a leash, huh?

 

[Smarta$$]

Nobody wants to dance on any pilots grave, except maybe for scabs. I think the point is a large number of us are quite tired of seeing another start-up paying lower than an established carrier, sub-standard benefits, and job protections and career expectations that add up to zilch. Point in case, People Express is attempting to resurface on the East coast again. Why? Not because it will provide good pilot jobs but because some schmo thinks he/they can make some money doing it.

That's some pretty anti-capitalist talk from a guy with that avatar picture...

 

[relief tube]

all those losses and they pay their labor peanuts.

please stick around because it's helping the industry so much.

 

[relief tube]

Oooooh, ziiiinnnggg...couldn't have called that comeback! :crying: What I am actually referring to is the level of service provided to their customers as well as the way they treat their employees. Pretty much every aspect of Virgin America is the opposite of Walmart. In fact, in my opinion, that is one of the reasons we are having a tough time making money. There is very little compromise on spending money to make this an enjoyable place to work, providing extrodinary customer service, and having the best technology implemented in many areas of this company. That's fine though. I didn't know a whole lot about this place before I came here either.

who the heck cares? he used walmart as a metaphor for your paycheck buddy.

your enjoyable workplace and "extrodinary" service, don't get your kids through college or help pay the mortgage.

sure as hell doesn't let you live in San Fran. You don't fly to many places, SO YOU RIDE TO WORK ON ALL THE CARRIERS THAT YOU'RE UNDERCUTTING.

 

[bri5150]

who the heck cares? he used walmart as a metaphor for your paycheck buddy.

your enjoyable workplace and "extrodinary" service, don't get your kids through college or help pay the mortgage.

sure as hell doesn't let you live in San Fran. You don't fly to many places, SO YOU RIDE TO WORK ON ALL THE CARRIERS THAT YOU'RE UNDERCUTTING.

My rate is currently better than Spirit, Frontier, Sun Country, American, Hawaiian, United, Allegiant, and US Airways. Down the road we may not keep up, but from what I have heard we have gotten raises every year. Heck, year 3 I am still above a majority of those carriers, including United and US Airways. Beyond 3 years from now, who the hell knows what is going to happen?

The guys I jumpseat on are pretty welcoming and are interested in hearing about Virgin America. They are also quite surprised about the way I am being treated by the company (well, that is). I responded to the guy calling us Walmart because it seems most people here that bash on Virgin America don't seem to understand what is going on here (including rates). As far as flying to a lot of places, I guess I am not sure how an airline is supposed to get started I guess. Enjoy your day!

My enjoyable workplace and extraoridnary service may get my kids through college if the company succeeds because of it.

 

[NEDude]

who the heck cares? he used walmart as a metaphor for your paycheck buddy.

your enjoyable workplace and "extrodinary" service, don't get your kids through college or help pay the mortgage.

sure as hell doesn't let you live in San Fran. You don't fly to many places, SO YOU RIDE TO WORK ON ALL THE CARRIERS THAT YOU'RE UNDERCUTTING.

So are you blaming the pilots at VX for driving wages down? Or are you blaming other factors like increased competition and various online ticket vendors?

 

[Chairman]

and World, North American, USA 3000, Southern, Evergreen, ASTAR, Champion, Miami Air, Omni, Ryan Air, and many other refugees with 1000's of hours of experience in large jets....

Lets not forget Jet Blue, US AIR, AMR, and UAL

 

[NEDude]

who the heck cares? he used walmart as a metaphor for your paycheck buddy.

your enjoyable workplace and "extrodinary" service, don't get your kids through college or help pay the mortgage.

sure as hell doesn't let you live in San Fran. You don't fly to many places, SO YOU RIDE TO WORK ON ALL THE CARRIERS THAT YOU'RE UNDERCUTTING.

Hmm, upon further checking Mr "Your're Undercutting" relief tube is a captain for that industry leading airline known as Republic. From an earlier post of his:

"16 off. Home 24 nights out of the month and home for dinner 20 nights of the month. most weekends off. But live in base, senior rsv RAH.
Sorry for BB trying to take over the world. I wish all we flew were 34 seat props and had mainline to look forward to. " - January 28, 2009.

He has also taken issue with those who blame pilots groups for low wages:

"I love people who blame pilot groups and not $29 airfares for the way this industry is."- January 23, 2009.

So a Republic pilot gets on here and despite prior pronouncements against those who blame pilot groups for low wages, and blames VX pilots for undercutting.

relief tube - I invite you to come out to our crew room in SFO, while in your RAH uniform, and tell the VX pilots how we are undercutting the industry. I will make sure the several dozen ex-Midwest guys who are here will be in attendance to hear your speech....

 

[redflyer65]

My rate is currently better than Spirit, Frontier, Sun Country, American, Hawaiian, United, Allegiant, and US Airways.

Bri,

I'm glad your current rate is above those carriers, but let's take a closer look....

USAir and United - You're comparing yourself to bankrupt contracts. That's a horrible arguement.

American - They don't have any 319/320's, so I don't think you want to compare yourself to there 737 rates, if you do...they win.

Hawaiian - They pay more for their 717 than for your Airbus rates.

Sun Country - Bankruptcy contract yet again.

Spirit - Pays marginally better.

Allegiant - Here we go. Your payrates are almost exactly equal to Allegiant. Almost dollar for dollar. I'm not sure your going to win any arguements talking about equallying Allegiant pay.

You work for a BILLIONAIRE, but he pays you less than Spirit's Baldanza. Not a strong arguement.

 

[bri5150]

Redflyer,

It's not my fault they are all on bankruptcy contracts. My rates over the next few years are higher than those others in my post, so how can I be undercutting them? Some of them we are quite a bit higher (almost 25%). I never exclaimed we are the best paid pilots on the planet. I am just saying that calling us undercutters and Walmart wages is way out of line. Also, I am not sure what being owned by a billionaire has to do with anything. He might be a billionaire, but that doesn't mean he can just write blank checks to pay people what they want. Obviously he sinks enouh money into this place just keeping it going at this point (which I am grateful for). Don't make me call on the general to talk about what happened when the almighty SWA started .

 

[NEDude]

Bri,

I'm glad your current rate is above those carriers, but let's take a closer look....

USAir and United - You're comparing yourself to bankrupt contracts. That's a horrible arguement.

American - They don't have any 319/320's, so I don't think you want to compare yourself to there 737 rates, if you do...they win.

Hawaiian - They pay more for their 717 than for your Airbus rates.

Sun Country - Bankruptcy contract yet again.

Spirit - Pays marginally better.

Allegiant - Here we go. Your payrates are almost exactly equal to Allegiant. Almost dollar for dollar. I'm not sure your going to win any arguements talking about equallying Allegiant pay.

You work for a BILLIONAIRE, but he pays you less than Spirit's Baldanza. Not a strong arguement.

Interesting that a Southwest guy would look down his nose at the pay rates of any other airline. You are either truly ignorant of your own airlines past, or you subjectively justify your own airlines actions while looking down at others for doing the same thing. So tell me Mr. Southwest, are you ignorant or a hypocrite?

 

[madjack]

SWA pay rates only became industry leading after the legacy bankruptcies post 9/11...

 

[madjack]

Will mr Branson continue with VX...? Yes...IMHO...he is a genius at branding...VX is a key foothold in the US for the Virgin conglomerate.

 

[Flyer1015]

Bri,

I'm glad your current rate is above those carriers, but let's take a closer look....

USAir and United - You're comparing yourself to bankrupt contracts. That's a horrible arguement.

But those bankrupt contracts were already in place when VA started flying in 2007, meaning, that was the standard against which other airlines would peg against. In case you haven't noticed, launching an airline in this industry in 2007 wasn't the best considering the economy tanked. But the

American - They don't have any 319/320's, so I don't think you want to compare yourself to there 737 rates, if you do...they win.

Get with the program, American has already posted its A319 payrates on APC, management imposed bankruptcy rate. And yes, they are lower than VAs.

Hawaiian - They pay more for their 717 than for your Airbus rates.

Maybe he's referring to first year pay, which is higher at VA than Hawaiian.

Sun Country - Bankruptcy contract yet again.

Even then, Sun Country is way bottom barrel. And, they were already in their BK-contract when VA came about in 2007.

Spirit - Pays marginally better.

Hardly pays better. Their management is so militant, they wanted contract concessions in order to pay for continued use of KCM.

Allegiant - Here we go. Your payrates are almost exactly equal to Allegiant. Almost dollar for dollar. I'm not sure your going to win any arguements talking about equallying Allegiant pay.

No it isn't. VX pay is about 2-3 dollars higher per year for any given longevity.

You work for a BILLIONAIRE, but he pays you less than Spirit's Baldanza. Not a strong arguement.

Not true. Again, compare apples to apples, not oranges. A Feb 2010 guy at Spirit is still a FO, whereas at VX he's a Captain. Spirit's Baldanza is such a cheap azz he wants contract concessions to get KCM on board. Pay-wise, it's a wash (close enough), years 1, 3, and 4 for FOs are higher pay at VX than Spirit, and for Captains, years 1-7 are much higher at VX than Spirit.


Seriously though, this is coming from a guy at SWA? Obviously you were hired post 9/11 at SWA, but lets not forget SWA's pay history from prior to 9/11.

 

[Flyer1015]

Hmm, upon further checking Mr "Your're Undercutting" relief tube is a captain for that industry leading airline known as Republic. From an earlier post of his:

"16 off. Home 24 nights out of the month and home for dinner 20 nights of the month. most weekends off. But live in base, senior rsv RAH.
Sorry for BB trying to take over the world. I wish all we flew were 34 seat props and had mainline to look forward to. " - January 28, 2009.

He has also taken issue with those who blame pilots groups for low wages:

"I love people who blame pilot groups and not $29 airfares for the way this industry is."- January 23, 2009.

So a Republic pilot gets on here and despite prior pronouncements against those who blame pilot groups for low wages, and blames VX pilots for undercutting.

relief tube - I invite you to come out to our crew room in SFO, while in your RAH uniform, and tell the VX pilots how we are undercutting the industry. I will make sure the several dozen ex-Midwest guys who are here will be in attendance to hear your speech....

LMAO! Owned