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ALPA wants more of your money

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badog

badog

Right career, Wrong time
Joined
Jun 1, 2003
Posts
219
Currently at ALPA national, a resolution has been passed at the Executive Board level and sent to the upcoming National Board Meeting in October for a full vote by the Board of Directors (that is every ALPA LEC status rep). This resolution is regarding how ALPA figures our dues. Currently, our dues are calculated off our pay after our 401(k) has been deducted. The resolution would now include our 401(k) in the dues calculations.

Discuss.....
 
Pinnacle's MEC voted for the resolution. Pinnacle and Commute air were the only regional Mec's to vote for it. Time for a recall!
 
What did you expect from a union filled with lifers? Wait, so shouldn't they want their 401Ks left untouched? What gives? How do you explain this move? Why would anyone want ALPA to take more money from your pocket by taking 1.95% of your 401K portion? Come on Pinnacle MEC, ALPA only took you so far. Why throw them a bone?
 
Why should 2 pilots, both making 100k pay different alpa dues because one contributes 5% to his 401k and the other contributes 10% to his 401k?

What does 401k pilot elected contributions have to do with paying for the protections and services provided by your union?

They are not related.
 
ALPA tried this a couple years ago and it was voted down.

X
 
Smarta$$ said:
Why should 2 pilots, both making 100k pay different alpa dues because one contributes 5% to his 401k and the other contributes 10% to his 401k?

What does 401k pilot elected contributions have to do with paying for the protections and services provided by your union?

They are not related.
Click to expand...

Working the system better to retain more of what S/HE earned!? Because one is smarter than the other. Protections and services? they haven't done much for me lately. With a tabled contract (XJT), grievances that are never dealt among many other issues in which they're completely ineffective, some occasional chest thumping that they got a bid window extended or sporadic communications do not justify the dues we're already paying.

They're getting too much already. 401k is MY pre-tax money for retirement. I don't make much as an FO and for them to take even more is ridiculous.
 
NWA said:
Pinnacle's MEC voted for the resolution. Pinnacle and Commute air were the only regional Mec's to vote for it. Time for a recall!
Click to expand...

I recall this debate around 5 years ago. The former Mesaba reps voted in favor of it and took a lot of heat for it. Several of the reps were ousted as they voted against the overwhelming wishes of the pilot group. If I recall correctly, Mesaba was the only regional whose reps voted in favor of the proposed change. It was all moot because it never passed nation wide. Sad to see it has resurfaced.
 
If I remember right, the motion failed mainly because United voted against it. I assume they will vote against it again unless something has changed.

There's a little more to it than just classifying 401k contributions as duesable. If your airline had another retirement program (like a pension), the 401k contributions have always been included in dues. So, for FedEx and Alaska, there's no reason to vote against it because it won't change their calculations one bit.

If your airline has no retirement other than a 401k, then currently the amount you contribute is not subject to dues, but will be under the proposal. If I remember right, some of the airlines were inconsistent about how they handled this, with some airlines considering a B plan a retirement program and therefore having to pay dues on 401k contributions, and some did not consider it that way. I could be wrong on that, but that's what I seem to remember.

Under this proposal all will be unified, however, it would affect the regionals and the lower-tier national airlines without a B fund the most. That's why most of the regionals voted against it (except Mesaba for some reason, probably due to handwringing from the NWA MEC at the time.)
 
Flyer1015 said:
What did you expect from a union filled with lifers? Wait, so shouldn't they want their 401Ks left untouched? What gives? How do you explain this move? Why would anyone want ALPA to take more money from your pocket by taking 1.95% of your 401K portion? Come on Pinnacle MEC, ALPA only took you so far. Why throw them a bone?
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, it WONT take money from your 401k. That will remain the same.
 
xkuzme1 said:
ALPA tried this a couple years ago and it was voted down.

X
Click to expand...

Yeah I was gonna say when I read the first post that I remember them trying this some years back.

ALPA is looking at an income loss going fwd. With senior top of scale pilots starting to retire in the next few years they are left with more guys not at or near top of scale to get their 2% from.

They have to find a way to pay themselves, pay for their townhomes/condos in DCA, cars, meetings on yachts in Miami and secretaries that make more (like 75K/year salary) than most of its dues paying members. Otherwise they might have to go out and actually fly.
 
badog said:
Currently at ALPA national, a resolution has been passed at the Executive Board level and sent to the upcoming National Board Meeting in October for a full vote by the Board of Directors (that is every ALPA LEC status rep). This resolution is regarding how ALPA figures our dues. Currently, our dues are calculated off our pay after our 401(k) has been deducted. The resolution would now include our 401(k) in the dues calculations.

Discuss.....
Click to expand...

The dues exemption for 401 (k) contributions is not universal. It does not apply to all ALPA pilot groups and even treats pilots within an airlines differently depending on their pension plans and the amount they contribute.

It's a fairness issue. All pilots should pay the same level of dues on their income. No special favors, treat everyone the same. If we can afford lower dues, then lower the dues for all members equally.
 
FDJ2 said:
The dues exemption for 401 (k) contributions is not universal. It does not apply to all ALPA pilot groups and even treats pilots within an airlines differently depending on their pension plans and the amount they contribute.

It's a fairness issue. All pilots should pay the same level of dues on their income. No special favors, treat everyone the same. If we can afford lower dues, then lower the dues for all members equally.
Click to expand...

Yes, but "income" is the taxable income line on my W2, not the gross income line.

If someone contributes 15% of their income to retirement, that money should be exempt from dues, and ALPA should welcome the incentive to contribute more. Isn't it ALPAs charge to do what is best for the pilot group? Encouraging higher contributions to retirement is better for the group.
 
ASA_Aviator said:
Yes, but "income" is the taxable income line on my W2, not the gross income line.

If someone contributes 15% of their income to retirement, that money should be exempt from dues, and ALPA should welcome the incentive to contribute more. Isn't it ALPAs charge to do what is best for the pilot group? Encouraging higher contributions to retirement is better for the group.
Click to expand...

The problem is that there are pilot groups out there that are unhappy that they must pay dues on their 401k contributions when other pilot groups do not.

I agree that from a regional pilot's perspective, with only a 401k retirement account, it is a hard sell. I think if ALPA wants to collect dues on what I contribute to a 401k, they should make it a priority to negotiate a B fund for the pilot groups that do not have one.
 
ASA_Aviator said:
Yes, but "income" is the taxable income line on my W2, not the gross income line.

If someone contributes 15% of their income to retirement, that money should be exempt from dues, and ALPA should welcome the incentive to contribute more. Isn't it ALPAs charge to do what is best for the pilot group? Encouraging higher contributions to retirement is better for the group.
Click to expand...

OK then, let's call it pay. Every pilot should pay the same dues on their union negotiated pay. No more subsidies, everyone pays their fair share.

ALPA should treat all pilots fairly, and charge dues the same for every full member in good standing.

I would encourage a defined contribution plan in addition to a 401(k).
 

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