ASA CDHP going up $700 next year for families? Switch back to ppo?

[FishandFly]

Can someone smart run the numbers on if the high deductible plan is still a better deal?

 

[CFI2766]

Disclaimer:

Each individual person's situation will determine which is the better choice.


Conceptually (this is not unique to ASA), the CDHPs that are becoming the norm for benefits programs in America are fundamentally different than what I think of as 'insurance'.

From Dictionary.com:

in·sur·ance

  http://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/dictionary/audio/luna/I02/I0218000.mp3 /ɪnˈʃʊərəns, -ˈʃɜr-/ http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/IPA_pron_key.htmlShow Spelled[in-shoor-uhns, -shur-] http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/Spell_pron_key.htmlShow IPA
noun 1. the act, system, or business of insuring property, life, one's person, etc., against loss or harm arising in specified contingencies, as fire, accident, death, disablement, or the like, in consideration of a payment proportionate to the risk involved.


My concept of insurance is that it is a product designed to reduce my financial harm in the event of an unexpected event. Unexpected is the key qualifier here. I have insurance because I make the safe assumption that I will require medical care on an unexpected basis throughout the year. I enjoy combative sports, and, historically worst of all, I play softball regularly.

My historical average of physician visits makes a clear case for the PPO. One fundamental difference between a PPO and a CDHP is the level of involvement that I am expected to shoulder in finding the cheapest option for my care. I want to enjoy my life and participate in the things that I enjoy doing. Shopping for the cheapest healthcare in my network of providers is not something that I enjoy doing.

Returning to the original question: IF the Company would contractually agree to both regularly increase their contribution by an inflation/COLA/indexed amount, and, guarantee regular contributions to my account, I would be more willing to participate in the CDHP. As neither of these things seem to be happening, I'm inclined to remain with the PPO option.

(In fairness, providing healthcare is an issue for every business in America. Our healthcare system was designed to serve the needs of the patients when the patients themselves aren't directly responsible supporting the margins of the healthcare industry. Historically, for better or worse, healthcare has been the responsibility of the employers here in America. While better than being the government's responsibility, it's clearly not in the best interests of corporate America to foot the bill for healthcare. Corporate America has determined that shifting the responsibility to the workforce will clean up the financials nicely. [Reference GM and the last few years of agreements with the UAW.])

YMMV...

 

[79%N1]

Look at the monthly premiums. The ppo has more than a $700/year difference. It's actually more than $2000 more in monthly premiums over the hdhc plan, at least for families, over the course of a year. Then the out of pocket max is the same anyway. When you add in the company contribution it is still a better deal.

 

[gator_hater]

CFI,

Healthcare in the US has historically been the responsibility of the individual. Employers only started kicking in when there were compensation regs implemented after WWII as we tried to get the troops back to work. It was a way to increase benefits without actual salary increases. So, only the last 65 years has it been on the employer prior to that it was the responsibility of the patient. In a sense were are returning to the old method.

I agree that every individual is different. My family of 4 has the CDHP and haven't changed drs or "shopped around" and we've accumulated $3500 in the HSA over the last three years. We bank the difference between of the premiums, my proformance plus, and the company contribution. We've added one to the family, we're pretty healthy, and pay all our medical bills, including dental, out of that account. Since we pay for dental, contacts and other stuff I would estimate that even if we were to have paid $2100 more in premiums the CDHP plan has saved us $2500-3000 after taxes are included.

Just my .02 but you are correct every family has their own set of issuses to deal with and not everyone will reach the same conclusion.

 

[MONKEY]

But I thought Obama had solved this issue. Free healthcare for everyone! Sorry, I couldn't resist. Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Don't worry, SKYW has slashed ground personnel pay and limited it to 5 year pay scale with an overall pay decrease. That should increase the bottom line enough to enable managers a significant bonus.
TFAYD

 

[Nevets]

I probably wouldn't chose it unless I could afford to pay the full deductible the day after the plan takes effect. After that consideration, every family is different.

 

[FishandFly]

It is interesting. I played with excel a bit and it shows that you start off the year quite a bit ahead of the ppo. I guess then the main issue is that once you really need something serious, the cdhp side increases at light speed toward the deductible before you start getting 80% help from the plan.

However, this "worse case scenario" would still leave me pretty well protected considering the max out of pocket is close to the same like 79% said.

 

[FishandFly]

More specifically,
CDHP to PPO
Cost per year from paycheck not counting contributions to cdhp - 2357 to 4541
Company puts 1k into cdhp taking cost down to 1357

Deductible is 2600 vs 1k in the ppo
each is co-insured at 20 percent after deductible is met.

Office visits and prescriptions are obviously way cheaper, but it seems like even if you need a dozen of each you still barely exceed the $3200 initially saved.

 

[PapaSiera]

LXJT has different health plans than you. For example, I have a PPO that costs me $100 per month and has a $300 deductible. We also have a PPO that has a $1500 deductible and costs $65 per month.

 

[FishandFly]

holy smokes.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

SkyWest isn't pushing these HSA insurance plans because they're better. They're junk, comparable with the Obamacare exchanges that are soon to be set up.

The company is just getting you ready for the corn holing when they drop everyone onto their own devices and force you to the government programs.

WAKE UP!!!

Just because you can go out and buy a 50" LED TV with your HSA debit card, does not mean the plan is good.

 

[79%N1]

SkyWest isn't pushing these HSA insurance plans because they're better. They're junk, comparable with the Obamacare exchanges that are soon to be set up.

The company is just getting you ready for the corn holing when they drop everyone onto their own devices and force you to the government programs.

WAKE UP!!!

Just because you can go out and buy a 50" LED TV with your HSA debit card, does not mean the plan is good.

Just with facts explain why you feel like that, without the broad statements. My monthly out of pocket is $275 per month less than the ppo. Preventative care (routine checkups for my kids) are at zero cost. The company puts in money each year. The hsa can grow for you throughout the future to cover out of pocket costs. The max out of pocket is the same either way. With the. Hdhc plan, you pay more until reaching the deductible - then 80/20. The ppo you pay higher premiums, but save none of that if you dont use it. I dont see your reasoning other than if the company wants it, it must be bad.

 

[Nevets]

LXJT has different health plans than you. For example, I have a PPO that costs me $100 per month and has a $300 deductible. We also have a PPO that has a $1500 deductible and costs $65 per month.

LXJT also has a HDHP. But they don't contribute anything to your HSA. Premiums range from ~$15-35. Those premium rates you mentioned are probably for employee only.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

They're shouldering you with the burden of shopping around for health care. They want you to watch every dime because you saving yourself money equals them saving money on their premiums. Why would I want that extra work. Negotiating with doctors' offices, hospitals, clinics....

Sure, you can go to the lowest bidder, but that's what they want. You skimping on your own family's health care.

So, I'm a conservative person, and I don't like being forced to 'Walmartize' my health care. If I want to see the best doc in town or in the country, I go, and let UHC do the negotiating. If you are are a cheapskate like most pilots then it may work for you.

$1000/yr will fly out of the account very quickly with children no matter what pittance you sock away on regional pay. Eventually, doctors will not waste their time with your phone calls questioning their going rates. If they're truly the best, you can't afford their time anyway.

The higher premiums of the PPO are for the insurance company to do the work. I fly planes, and they deal with the billing.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Just because you can go out and buy a 50" LED TV with your HSA debit card, does not mean the plan is good.

I can buy a 50" tv with the card? Just so I can watch DRs Oz and Phil?
Sweet!

 

[79%N1]

Oakum...you are wrong about that. They still have rates with UHC, the same ones they charge the PPO. Never once have I 'called all around town' shopping a doctors rate. If you hurt your shoulder, for instance and go to an orthopedic doctor, you are charged the UHC negotiated rate for the visit. I paid about $300 for an MRI, and 100 bucks for the visit. That was $400. And that was all I had for the year. So on the PPO it would have been $20 copay, but my premium would have been over $300 for that month, and the next month and the next month. To come out ahead on the ppo, you need about 3-4 doctors appointments per month.

 

[gator_hater]

79%,

He does't want to listen to reason. So, try not to confuse him, or others for that matter, with the details.

 

[enuffalready]

Oakum...you are wrong about that. They still have rates with UHC, the same ones they charge the PPO. Never once have I 'called all around town' shopping a doctors rate. If you hurt your shoulder, for instance and go to an orthopedic doctor, you are charged the UHC negotiated rate for the visit. I paid about $300 for an MRI, and 100 bucks for the visit. That was $400. And that was all I had for the year. So on the PPO it would have been $20 copay, but my premium would have been over $300 for that month, and the next month and the next month. To come out ahead on the ppo, you need about 3-4 doctors appointments per month.

curious... do you have to go to specific doctors? I have the PPO now, like my dr but am rarely sick.

 

[gator_hater]

Enuff,

If your current dr is a UHC network guy you're good nothing changes. Get out some eob statements (available online if needed) and run a comparison for your own situation. You might be surprised at the $$ the CDHP could save.