Why is AT&T losing its pilots?

[Turtledriver]

Anyone know why so many pilots are bailing out of AT&T flight department? I have heard it due to management or lack of management and some pretty crazy work rules.

 

[Turtledriver]

I thought there were some folks that may have some insight. I had some friends that were canned when they made the move to Dallas. It was a pretty raw deal, considering they had just bought, not merged, bought Bell South and decided to keep those new pilots and let the folks who had actually been hired by AT&T go. They have scattered to the winds. Heard some politico took over the dictatorship, and has no clue what he is doing.

Just sad when a great deptartment ceases or is mismanaged into a heap.

 

[dhc8fo]

Sadly, this happens a lot. Same exact thing happened when Alpha took over Massey Energy. Too many lawyers and managers think they know everything about running the flight department and everyone has to make sure their buddy's guys are taken care of in spite of the guys who have been there forever...

 

[pilotyip]

Another example of job security in the corporate world. A hiring boom is coming getting a seniority number at a major when the hiring starts is probalby the best job security in the aviation world. Although using the term "job security" in the aviation business is an Oxymoron

 

[LegacyDriver]

I thought there were some folks that may have some insight. I had some friends that were canned when they made the move to Dallas. It was a pretty raw deal, considering they had just bought, not merged, bought Bell South and decided to keep those new pilots and let the folks who had actually been hired by AT&T go. They have scattered to the winds. Heard some politico took over the dictatorship, and has no clue what he is doing.

Just sad when a great deptartment ceases or is mis
managed into a heap.

I can confirm that.

Also, many of the guys who made the move decided it was better to do other things, like Southwest, back to active reserve, etc. A couple of guys that quit were pretty sharp.

Meanwhile, nobody who got furloughed has been asked to come back despite what the Director of Ops said.

Those still there say it is nothing like the operation it was before the move...

I feel bad for all the guys who got the chop. Many are having a rough time.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Another example of job security in the corporate world. A hiring boom is coming getting a seniority number at a major when the hiring starts is probalby the best job security in the aviation world. Although using the term "job security" in the aviation business is an Oxymoron

But too many pilots also ignore the importance of saving money. Flying slower, tankering, or skipping the rental car once in awhile when a hotel shuttle will do. Wasting coin causes the bean counters to overreact and shut it down. ATT wasted money where it could have been saved in many departments. Big companies become like the government in that regard sometimes. But the whole spend it or we won't get it next year mentality is a common one to many people.


Freescale in Austin is closing January 1. Same deal (not saying their pilots waste money so don't assume that please). New boss thinks it too expensive so bye bye.

 

[pilotyip]

But too many pilots also ignore the importance of saving money. Flying slower, tankering, or skipping the rental car once in awhile when a hotel shuttle will do. Wasting coin causes the bean counters to overreact and shut it down. ATT wasted money where it could have been saved in many departments. Big companies become like the government in that regard sometimes. But the whole spend it or we won't get it next year mentality is a common one to many people.


Freescale in Austin is closing January 1. Same deal (not saying their pilots waste money so don't assume that please). New boss thinks it too expensive so bye bye.

I have heard the same thing "It is a cost of doing business" but when there are too many "costs of doing business" some companies stop doing business. Like the ole battle cry of the union organizer, "More days off and more pay" until you have all your days off with no pay.

 

[Turtledriver]

, nobody who got furloughed has been asked to come back despite what the Director of Ops said.

I heard they hired one guy back. Some Navy guy who was one of the Asst Chiefs boys from Cingular.

 

[LegacyDriver]

I heard they hired one guy back. Some Navy guy who was one of the Asst Chiefs boys from Cingular.

If it is who I think that guy never got furloughed in the move to begin with.

 

[LegacyDriver]

I have heard the same thing "It is a cost of doing business" but when there are too many "costs of doing business" some companies stop doing business. Like the ole battle cry of the union organizer, "More days off and more pay" until you have all your days off with no pay.

Lol, yep.

Freescale isn't doing well overall any way, as I understand it, so it may not matter...

 

[Turtledriver]

I met a very pompous a-hole once. He introduced himself as the director of AT&T. Now I knew the director, and this guy was definately not him. Turns out he was some 25 year Asst Chief who just thought Joseph Smith had Proclaimed him the next director. Guess it didn't happen, as the politico got the job when he was sent out to pasture.

 

[LegacyDriver]

I met a very pompous a-hole once. He introduced himself as the director of AT&T. Now I knew the director, and this guy was definately not him. Turns out he was some 25 year Asst Chief who just thought Joseph Smith had Proclaimed him the next director. Guess it didn't happen, as the politico got the job when he was sent out to pasture.

Well, don't get me wrong on anything as there are plenty of good people there now. From the original SBC, ATT, Americtech, Bell South, and Cingular.... But in the furlough they let some people go they shoulda kept....and vice versa. Politics was a player. Guys on the street should have been recalled before hiring new people. I think morality has to come into play at some point when you have power over who gets hired, fired, or recalled.


There are some great ex T pilots still looking for work who should be back there. They are really good people. Ethical. Hard working. Astute. I still don't get it.

 

[guido411]

But too many pilots also ignore the importance of saving money. Flying slower, tankering, or skipping the rental car once in awhile when a hotel shuttle will do. Wasting coin causes the bean counters to overreact and shut it down.

No disrespect, but if the pilots getting a rental car ever play into a department shutting down it never had a chance anyway.

 

[LegacyDriver]

No disrespect, but if the pilots getting a rental car ever play into a department shutting down it never had a chance anyway.

It is an overall mentality I am referring to. If your attitude is you are getting a $79 rental car for an overnight when the hotel is literally within walking distance then it is a sure bet you're wasting a ton of money elsewhere.

 

[guido411]

It is an overall mentality I am referring to. If your attitude is you are getting a $79 rental car for an overnight when the hotel is literally within walking distance then it is a sure bet you're wasting a ton of money elsewhere.

Not necessarily true... I fly at efficient altitudes and airspeeds, shop fuel prices, tanker from home when it makes sense, negotiate hangar rates, shop insurance coverages, etc. But I also rent a car even if the hotel is within walking distance. You walked and the boss' limo didn't show up in BFE and he missed a meeting because you couldn't get him. Or you had a last minute catering request from the hoagie shop 5 miles from the airport but instead the pax miss out.

I could go on and on about hypotheticals but the point is rental cars don't belong in this discussion. You fly the legacy, right? Why not only eat crackers and pop from the plane? Berth the seats in the back and save hotel costs? Where does it stop?

 

[gern_blanston]

It is an overall mentality I am referring to. If your attitude is you are getting a $79 rental car for an overnight when the hotel is literally within walking distance then it is a sure bet you're wasting a ton of money elsewhere.

I'll take that bet. You have no idea how we run our flight department. You are making isht up and projecting your own mentality on people you don't know.

 

[LegacyDriver]

I'll take that bet. You have no idea how we run our flight department. You are making isht up and projecting your own mentality on people you don't know.

I wasn't speaking of anyone in particular. This conversation went hypothetical long ago.

 

[LegacyDriver]

I hear you, Guido. But perhaps your attitude is rare. Have we not all flown with people who see expensive hotels and cars as an entitlement?

 

[Turtledriver]

Getting a rental car or not obviously isn't why so many pilots are leaving AT&T. It used to a fairly good job. Pilots stayed there for a career and now it appears pilots are abandoning the place, Creating a revolving door.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Getting a rental car or not obviously isn't why so many pilots are leaving AT&T. It used to a fairly good job. Pilots stayed there for a career and now it appears pilots are abandoning the place, Creating a revolving door.

True, but the department was too big and too expensive. They basically cut it in half for starters... You can imagine the increased workload that would put on those who remain.

People are still staying for a career. The thing is they hire then furlough. Then hire and furlough. Some stay for a career because they're high enough to dodge the axe... There were guys with 12-15 years getting the chop on the first round.

I can only say that a couple of the people I know who left did so because of the things you mentioned. Another few are biding their time so they can retire.

Don't shoot the messenger. Just passing things along that I have been told because you asked.