Comair to cease operations

[HalinTexas]

Ahhh ... not true. When Comair was still running around in San Antonio sewertubes, AirWisc was code sharing with UAL w/ BAe146s, Air Ill. was code sharing with UAL with BAC111s, and Empire was code sharing with Pan Am and later Piedmont with F-28s. There are probably others but I am not going to waste time remembering them. The simple point is, the above statement is incorrect.

Bob

I seem to recall there were strict restrictions on those operations. TWA had a speed limit codeshare, for example. Nothing could codeshare that was faster than 350 Kts. DALPA opened it up, when they should have closed it down.

 

[BobbyBiplane]

I seem to recall there were strict restrictions on those operations. TWA had a speed limit codeshare, for example. Nothing could codeshare that was faster than 350 Kts. DALPA opened it up, when they should have closed it down.

None of these were speed limited (other than the fact that a BAe146 isn't very fast to begin with). Unfortunately for those without the history ... Comair was neither the first US mainline passenger codesharing partner (many attribute that to Henson for Alleghney in 1967) nor the first to operate jets (which has often been associated with Air Wisc. for United in 1983) nor the first to carry the partner's livery (again Henson with Alleghney in early 1970s). By the time Comair operated the first of its small jets, a number of other operators were operating larger jets on codesharing programs for US major airlines some, like Altair Airlines in PHL, operating aircraft similar to their mainline partners such as the DC-9-30.

Bob

 

[SWA717]

Don't forget about Mesa operating 2 F-27s for AWA.

 

[General Lee]

Don't forget about Mesa operating 2 F-27s for AWA.

You mean F70s, right? Fokker 70 jets, not old F27 props.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[gobyebye]

"That said, when 2000 RJ guys flip the bird collectively to Delta, I don't think they should expect a whole lot of love back in return from the pilot group." Albie

FYI Albie, as a former comair guy, I can tell you that only about 10 or so local alpa folks had anything to do with this. Nothing was voted on by the pilot group or even presented prior to this memo coming out, no matter what you were told. It was out before we even knew about it. So to punish the pilot group for the actions of a few delusional lifers at the top of the union trying to make comair something it could never be, is just ignorant. 90% of the pilots flying for comair 10 years ago were just there to pass through. We had no problem letting Delta pilots join the list, we were just there to get hours. I love it when people who had no part of a situation post such strong opinions about it.

 

[JohnQ]

"That said, when 2000 RJ guys flip the bird collectively to Delta, I don't think they should expect a whole lot of love back in return from the pilot group." Albie

FYI Albie, as a former comair guy, I can tell you that only about 10 or so local alpa folks had anything to do with this. Nothing was voted on by the pilot group or even presented prior to this memo coming out, no matter what you were told. It was out before we even knew about it. So to punish the pilot group for the actions of a few delusional lifers at the top of the union trying to make comair something it could never be, is just ignorant. 90% of the pilots flying for comair 10 years ago were just there to pass through. We had no problem letting Delta pilots join the list, we were just there to get hours. I love it when people who had no part of a situation post such strong opinions about it.

I am not without sympathy for your position. However, to the DAL folks the real problem is that your small number of hardcore lifers DEFINED your union. For all the discussions of "most guys don't feel that way" the problem was that any correspondence from Comair pilots usually involved your leadership trying to weasel their way onto our seniority list--up to and including suing the DAL pilots, I seem to remember--and then flipping the bird to our furloughees. And again, we were not seeking some flowdown ala Eagle/APA where furloughees somehow got to fly in the left seat of an RJ, thereby displacing Comair guys. We just wanted our furloughees to be able to fly in the right seat of an RJ at the bottom of the Comair seniority list, while they awaited recall from DAL. J.C. wouldn't tolerate that, for some bizarre reason.

And despite "most of us don't feel that way" there was never a recall petition, never a formal or even informal denunciation of those positions.

But...that was a long time ago and I realize that most guys still flying right seat at Comair weren't even there then. But burning bridges in this industry is a bad idea, because memories are long-remembered.

 

[Dan Roman]

None of these were speed limited (other than the fact that a BAe146 isn't very fast to begin with). Unfortunately for those without the history ... Comair was neither the first US mainline passenger codesharing partner (many attribute that to Henson for Alleghney in 1967) nor the first to operate jets (which has often been associated with Air Wisc. for United in 1983) nor the first to carry the partner's livery (again Henson with Alleghney in early 1970s). By the time Comair operated the first of its small jets, a number of other operators were operating larger jets on codesharing programs for US major airlines some, like Altair Airlines in PHL, operating aircraft similar to their mainline partners such as the DC-9-30.

Bob

You are bringing back old memories. I was a former Henson pilot. I recall Henson as the first of the dozen or so "Allegheny Commuters". At first we were all restricted to turboprops no larger the 19 seats except Ransome. They had 29 passenger Nord 262's. Then the restriction was upped to 30 seats allowing Henson SD3-30's. Than mainline starting operating Nord 's themselves. It was an operational and training nightmare. Trying to pay guys who could hold jet FO to stay in the Nord didn't work and ultimately they had a fatal crash. The whole deal was aborted as unworkable. I have to wonder if that's the turning point that opened the door for ALPA to look at allowing subcontractors to operate the "small" aircraft flying. Than somehow the cat got out of the bag and the next thing you know 52 percent of the domestic flying (I read that somewhere) is done by RJ subcontractors.

 

[Dan Roman]

Btw, I don't recall Altair ever being a code share partner with anyone, weren't they always an independent airline?

 

[SWA717]

You mean F70s, right? Fokker 70 jets, not old F27 props.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Yes. I meant F 70s. Thanks.

 

[Dan Roman]

Interesting to note, there used to be a category of what was called regional airlines back than that did all the flying that today's regionals do. Ozark, North Central, PSA, AirCal, Allegheny, Southern, Hughes Airwest etc.etc. all were considered just as good as a career destination as the so called trunk carriers like United, Western American, Delta etc. ?
Now all the flying is done by subcontractors trying to underbid each other and pilots careers at the regional level are only as good as how long the contract is and they are forced to pit each others payscales against each other to survive.
I saw someone make a disparaging comment about Comair "lifers" as if that's a bad thing? It looks to me like the Comair pilots did a better job of anyone trying to make their regional a good career destination and got shafted for it. They raised the bar and everyone else snuck under it.
Good luck Comair guys. I hope this doesn't sound patronizing but I've been through furloughs and bankruptcies and job changes. It sucks but it will get better and more often than not you'll find that moving on was painful but ultimately ended up being a good thing. Hawaiian is hiring for the foreseeable future and I'm going to remind our MEC about priority hiring after this post for what's it's worth.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I doubt DAL MGT worries about a PID, it has zero bearing on MGT and can't force a integrated SLI.

Lots of moving parts in the regional world, DAL will ultimately get what they want with regards to aircraft swap outs.

Quite true. A Domestic CS with a SKW branded operation also would have a negative impact on ALK's market cap, thus making them cheaper as well. More moving parts for ya.

 

[BobbyBiplane]

Btw, I don't recall Altair ever being a code share partner with anyone, weren't they always an independent airline?

Dan:

Altair was an independent carrier with a number of code sharing agreements (as was/did Henson) for other carriers (but not Allegheny) but without the close ties and schedule coordination of the Allegheny Commuter partners. The important piece of the original Alleghney Commuter partnerships was not the paint but, rather, the schedule coordination for better passenger connections. Altair never had this benefit.

Back in the mid 1970s I flew with Ransome when Altair had Beech 99s and Nord 262s. Later, as the did not have the revenue stream of the Alleghney partnerships, Altair expnded to independent FL flying with F-28s and DC-9s. This did not work and they ceased operations in the early 1980s.

You are correct, following the Frakes mod Nord 262 (Mohawk M-298) crash in Clarksburg Alleghney got out of the turboprop business sending the remaining seven to Ransome and Penn Commuter.

Its always nice to speak with another DHC-7 guy. It was the most complex but fun aircraft I have flown and still miss it.

Bob

 

[Dan Roman]

I was lucky enough to fly the Dash 7 at Henson and Hawaiian, your right what a fun airplane, especially going in and out of DCA. We probably crossed paths at that old DCA commuter terminal. In fact I did two stints at Henson, during the second one I was the f/o on the third and last plane to land before DCA shut down due to the crash of Palm 90. Then we spent the next 8 hours there watching the live coverage in the crew room. One of the crew members watching with us was an Air Florida FA. He had just gotten of that airplane and had worked with them inbound. Needless to say it was pretty heavy sitting there with him as the live coverage of the FA dangling from the rescue helicopter flashed on screen.
That story aside, I've got a lot of good memories from my Henson days. I do remember when I first started with Henson on the B 99, I envied you Ransome guys because you got to fly the Nord, looked like heavy iron to a B 99 driver!

 

[waveflyer]

Love the stories guys- always good perspective

 

[Dan Roman]

Well I had all day in KIX and it was 90 degrees out, hence my story telling. Gotta love travelling with an iPad. I did find something out for the Comair guys that I think is worth a new string so everyone sees it. I'm sure once these strings get a certain length they lose people.

 

[Dan Roman]

For the Comair folks

Hawaiian is in pretty much continual hiring mode for the foreseeable future (retirements and projected arrival of A/C over the next 3 years. We have embarked on selective international expansion that is working even better than they anticipated so by all accounts it will continue.
E-mail with my rep today and he confirmed that the MEC will request priority interviews for you guys. No promises yet but they were very receptive to giving the AQ and ATA guys priority under the same circumstances.
We had a change in the MEC Chair position and your chair had a hard time contacting us as a result. It's being rectified.
Gotta go or I would elaborate.
Good Luck guys

 

[Dan Roman]

Opts, meant for that to go to a new post, don't have time to fix it right now

 

[PCL_128]

Awesome, Dan. Thank you for going out of your way to talk to your MEC about this. You're the man.

 

[Flyer1015]

Awesome, Dan. Thank you for going out of your way to talk to your MEC about this. You're the man.

Have you refunded the Comair pilot's ALPA dues since the bankruptcy of 2006 and onwards? Get on it! ALPA hasn't done **** for these pilots for the past 6 years.