Comair to cease operations

[HalinTexas]

Ahhh ... not true. When Comair was still running around in San Antonio sewertubes, AirWisc was code sharing with UAL w/ BAe146s, Air Ill. was code sharing with UAL with BAC111s, and Empire was code sharing with Pan Am and later Piedmont with F-28s. There are probably others but I am not going to waste time remembering them. The simple point is, the above statement is incorrect.

Bob

I seem to recall there were strict restrictions on those operations. TWA had a speed limit codeshare, for example. Nothing could codeshare that was faster than 350 Kts. DALPA opened it up, when they should have closed it down.

 

[BobbyBiplane]

I seem to recall there were strict restrictions on those operations. TWA had a speed limit codeshare, for example. Nothing could codeshare that was faster than 350 Kts. DALPA opened it up, when they should have closed it down.

None of these were speed limited (other than the fact that a BAe146 isn't very fast to begin with). Unfortunately for those without the history ... Comair was neither the first US mainline passenger codesharing partner (many attribute that to Henson for Alleghney in 1967) nor the first to operate jets (which has often been associated with Air Wisc. for United in 1983) nor the first to carry the partner's livery (again Henson with Alleghney in early 1970s). By the time Comair operated the first of its small jets, a number of other operators were operating larger jets on codesharing programs for US major airlines some, like Altair Airlines in PHL, operating aircraft similar to their mainline partners such as the DC-9-30.

Bob

 

[SWA717]

Don't forget about Mesa operating 2 F-27s for AWA.

 

[General Lee]

Don't forget about Mesa operating 2 F-27s for AWA.

You mean F70s, right? Fokker 70 jets, not old F27 props.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[gobyebye]

"That said, when 2000 RJ guys flip the bird collectively to Delta, I don't think they should expect a whole lot of love back in return from the pilot group." Albie

FYI Albie, as a former comair guy, I can tell you that only about 10 or so local alpa folks had anything to do with this. Nothing was voted on by the pilot group or even presented prior to this memo coming out, no matter what you were told. It was out before we even knew about it. So to punish the pilot group for the actions of a few delusional lifers at the top of the union trying to make comair something it could never be, is just ignorant. 90% of the pilots flying for comair 10 years ago were just there to pass through. We had no problem letting Delta pilots join the list, we were just there to get hours. I love it when people who had no part of a situation post such strong opinions about it.

 

[JohnQ]

"That said, when 2000 RJ guys flip the bird collectively to Delta, I don't think they should expect a whole lot of love back in return from the pilot group." Albie

FYI Albie, as a former comair guy, I can tell you that only about 10 or so local alpa folks had anything to do with this. Nothing was voted on by the pilot group or even presented prior to this memo coming out, no matter what you were told. It was out before we even knew about it. So to punish the pilot group for the actions of a few delusional lifers at the top of the union trying to make comair something it could never be, is just ignorant. 90% of the pilots flying for comair 10 years ago were just there to pass through. We had no problem letting Delta pilots join the list, we were just there to get hours. I love it when people who had no part of a situation post such strong opinions about it.

I am not without sympathy for your position. However, to the DAL folks the real problem is that your small number of hardcore lifers DEFINED your union. For all the discussions of "most guys don't feel that way" the problem was that any correspondence from Comair pilots usually involved your leadership trying to weasel their way onto our seniority list--up to and including suing the DAL pilots, I seem to remember--and then flipping the bird to our furloughees. And again, we were not seeking some flowdown ala Eagle/APA where furloughees somehow got to fly in the left seat of an RJ, thereby displacing Comair guys. We just wanted our furloughees to be able to fly in the right seat of an RJ at the bottom of the Comair seniority list, while they awaited recall from DAL. J.C. wouldn't tolerate that, for some bizarre reason.

And despite "most of us don't feel that way" there was never a recall petition, never a formal or even informal denunciation of those positions.

But...that was a long time ago and I realize that most guys still flying right seat at Comair weren't even there then. But burning bridges in this industry is a bad idea, because memories are long-remembered.

 

[Dan Roman]

None of these were speed limited (other than the fact that a BAe146 isn't very fast to begin with). Unfortunately for those without the history ... Comair was neither the first US mainline passenger codesharing partner (many attribute that to Henson for Alleghney in 1967) nor the first to operate jets (which has often been associated with Air Wisc. for United in 1983) nor the first to carry the partner's livery (again Henson with Alleghney in early 1970s). By the time Comair operated the first of its small jets, a number of other operators were operating larger jets on codesharing programs for US major airlines some, like Altair Airlines in PHL, operating aircraft similar to their mainline partners such as the DC-9-30.

Bob

You are bringing back old memories. I was a former Henson pilot. I recall Henson as the first of the dozen or so "Allegheny Commuters". At first we were all restricted to turboprops no larger the 19 seats except Ransome. They had 29 passenger Nord 262's. Then the restriction was upped to 30 seats allowing Henson SD3-30's. Than mainline starting operating Nord 's themselves. It was an operational and training nightmare. Trying to pay guys who could hold jet FO to stay in the Nord didn't work and ultimately they had a fatal crash. The whole deal was aborted as unworkable. I have to wonder if that's the turning point that opened the door for ALPA to look at allowing subcontractors to operate the "small" aircraft flying. Than somehow the cat got out of the bag and the next thing you know 52 percent of the domestic flying (I read that somewhere) is done by RJ subcontractors.

 

[Dan Roman]

Btw, I don't recall Altair ever being a code share partner with anyone, weren't they always an independent airline?

 

[SWA717]

You mean F70s, right? Fokker 70 jets, not old F27 props.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Yes. I meant F 70s. Thanks.

 

[Dan Roman]

Interesting to note, there used to be a category of what was called regional airlines back than that did all the flying that today's regionals do. Ozark, North Central, PSA, AirCal, Allegheny, Southern, Hughes Airwest etc.etc. all were considered just as good as a career destination as the so called trunk carriers like United, Western American, Delta etc. ?
Now all the flying is done by subcontractors trying to underbid each other and pilots careers at the regional level are only as good as how long the contract is and they are forced to pit each others payscales against each other to survive.
I saw someone make a disparaging comment about Comair "lifers" as if that's a bad thing? It looks to me like the Comair pilots did a better job of anyone trying to make their regional a good career destination and got shafted for it. They raised the bar and everyone else snuck under it.
Good luck Comair guys. I hope this doesn't sound patronizing but I've been through furloughs and bankruptcies and job changes. It sucks but it will get better and more often than not you'll find that moving on was painful but ultimately ended up being a good thing. Hawaiian is hiring for the foreseeable future and I'm going to remind our MEC about priority hiring after this post for what's it's worth.