Hobby expansion passes; Southwest wins fight with United

[Bake]

Andy, I won't go through the trouble of looking ******************** up. I just don't care enough. However, Everytime I pass through there I hear a citation taxiing to customs. They can barely speak English and are always jamming up ground frequency. That's all I know. customs is available there, maybe it is on call but it is used continuously.

Bake

 

[humveedriver]

I think the customs office on the south ramp would continue to do what it does. Process GA aircraft that come in to HOU. One website claims HOU sees the most business traffic of any Houston area airport. The new International Terminal would be an additional requirement. I'm not familiar enough to know if these agents could share the load or schedules and all that. But I don't see them moving from the GA side or losing that requirement.

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/trade/trade_outreach/ports.xml

 

[Continental]

When is the SWA party and can this UAL guy come? I'm guessing beers will be free. Here I'd have to bring my own and then Jeff would take them for himself and charge me. Congrats SWA!

 

[Tweet-a-Lishus]

Flop, I am pretty sure yo are the most ignorant poster on here. Your CEO didn't care enough to show up, and you want us to take the blame. Waaaaa!

 

[CA Calypso]

Don't fool yourself for one second, these job losses are directly on each and every Southwest employee, from GK on down. QUOTE]

Flop,

These job losses fall squarely on United's inept management and merger with CAL - it's called hub right-sizing. SWA and the city council are merely scapegoats.

Gary Kelly's obligation is to protect and grow SWA and it's employees. He is succeeding and UAL is failing. I really don't mean this as crass as it sounds. I truly hope that the UAL/CAL employees who desire it, find a new home at SW.

 

[CaptJax]

UA Plans IAH Job Cuts

United Continental plans Houston job cuts

(Reuters) - United Continental Holdings will reduce flights and 1,300 jobs at Houston's biggest airport after that city gave Southwest Airlines approval to add international flights at a smaller airport in Houston.

United's biggest hub is Houston's George Bush Intercontinental Airport. The City Council of Houston voted on Wednesday to allow Southwest to expand William Hobby Airport to build new gates and a customs facility for international routes.

"We expect to begin a 10 percent reduction in planned (Intercontinental) capacity beginning with the fall 2012 schedule change," United Continental said in a Wednesday memo to workers that was obtained on Thursday.
The Hobby expansion had been opposed by United Continental, which had released a report earlier this month saying international service at Hobby would drain passengers from Intercontinental.

In that report, United said the diversion of traffic from Intercontinental would lead it to cut its planned capacity at that airport by 10 percent, costing 1,300 jobs.

"We regret the job loss, but we will be forced to reduce employment" at Intercontinental as a direct result of the City's approval of the Hobby expansion, the staff memo said. Job cuts will begin in the fall and occur over time, United said.

Southwest agreed to invest at least $100 million to cover costs tied to the Hobby upgrade. Construction at Hobby is expected to take two years, with international flights not expected to start there until 2015.

United has a total of more than 85,000 employees.

 

[Flopgut]

Guys: Realize this is not just what Jeff S. would have done, this is not simply right-sizing a hub. This is what anybody running a large hub at IAH would have to do after this policy change. Bethune would have had to do the same thiing. This is the only reaction a company could take. These people will be out of work due to Southwest Airlines. Period. Gk put these people out of work. It will happen around Christmas. Nice job SWA!! If we had won and SWA had to move over to IAH, we both would pbly be hiring. But SWA can't "win" if someone else doesn't lose.

The specific problem is that these former CAL people can't/don't want to move out of Houston. United will have a spot for them elsewhere, but anybody who could move already has for the most part. They should have right of first refusal to new positions at SWA, and you guys ought to get on making it happen. I think Bubba already has and I appreciate it. I tell you from what I gather is the average current swa understanding of FIS/customs/etc, you are going to need people who understand it. And they all do.

 

[Britpilot]

Do you really believe what you write?
10% job cuts in the Fall of 2012 because SWA will begin service to Mexico sometime in 2015?
Please.

 

[humveedriver]

Guys: Realize this is not just what Jeff S. would have done, this is not simply right-sizing a hub. This is what anybody running a large hub at IAH would have to do after this policy change. Bethune would have had to do the same thiing. This is the only reaction a company could take. These people will be out of work due to Southwest Airlines. Period. Gk put these people out of work. It will happen around Christmas. Nice job SWA!! If we had won and SWA had to move over to IAH, we both would pbly be hiring. But SWA can't "win" if someone else doesn't lose.

The specific problem is that these former CAL people can't/don't want to move out of Houston. United will have a spot for them elsewhere, but anybody who could move already has for the most part. They should have right of first refusal to new positions at SWA, and you guys ought to get on making it happen. I think Bubba already has and I appreciate it. I tell you from what I gather is the average current swa understanding of FIS/customs/etc, you are going to need people who understand it. And they all do.

SWA doesn't have to worry about FIS and customs they have AT to 'splain it to them. 1. Bring passport 2. Stand in line 3. Don't use your cell phone . That should do it. That's some good propaganda though Flop. It's a shame you are wasting that talent here. You should be an op-ed writer or you could start a blog or something.

 

[SKC]

Gotta be one of the most hilarious posts on this entire board Flop.

Delusional doesn't even begin to describe your rantings.

SWA doesn't owe any UA employee anything for you having an inept management. It sucks you're in the position and I don't wish anyone failure, but to say SWA owes them right of first refusal is pretty darn funny. Would SWA be smart to look at their experience for possible positions? Sure. But they aren't owed anything.

Yet once again, SWA HAS ABSOLUTELY NO AFFECT ON UA JOB LOSSES RIGHT NOW AT IAH. it's not possible for this to cause people to lose jobs THREE YEARS ahead of time.

Please follow along this time.

 

[scoreboardII]

Guys: Realize this is not just what Jeff S. would have done, this is not simply right-sizing a hub. This is what anybody running a large hub at IAH would have to do after this policy change. Bethune would have had to do the same thiing. This is the only reaction a company could take. These people will be out of work due to Southwest Airlines. Period. Gk put these people out of work. It will happen around Christmas. Nice job SWA!! If we had won and SWA had to move over to IAH, we both would pbly be hiring. But SWA can't "win" if someone else doesn't lose.

The specific problem is that these former CAL people can't/don't want to move out of Houston. United will have a spot for them elsewhere, but anybody who could move already has for the most part. They should have right of first refusal to new positions at SWA, and you guys ought to get on making it happen. I think Bubba already has and I appreciate it. I tell you from what I gather is the average current swa understanding of FIS/customs/etc, you are going to need people who understand it. And they all do.

Flop, you peace of ********************, UAL employee's will be out ofwork for one reason, the ineptness of UAL managers to run a company.

******************** you Flop

 

[onionluvr]

I would be pretty worried if I worked for a company that was relying on the government to keep my competition at bay. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.

Didn't WN/FL recently add flying to Mexico out of MDW? When are the ORD job reductions getting announced? This is a simple case of the bratty kid on the playground taking his toys home with him because he doesn't get to win all the time.

Horribly lame and embarrassing.

 

[Mickey D]

We haven't even announced what international cities we are going to serve in 2015. How can the UAL management team know that there is even going to be competition on any of their routes from IAH?

 

[tankerhead]

I'm pretty sure most of you internet pricks would be fun to actually fly with and have a beer or twelve with.

But I'm also pretty sure ole Floppy would have most of us looking for a sharp object that TSA missed so we could jam it through our precious pilot eyes, hopefully deep in the brain to stop the freaking oral diarrhea.

Holy crap, part of me dies every time I read one of his posts.

 

[redflyer65]

Flop, you peace of ********************, UAL employee's will be out ofwork for one reason, the ineptness of UAL managers to run a company.

******************** you Flop

Exactly. Jeff had the press release typed up and was waiting to hit the Send button on the Fax machine when the City Council voted. SEE I TOLD YOU WE WOULD LOSE JOBS!

Weak, weak arguement. He planned it all along.

 

[Andy]

Do you really believe what you write?
10% job cuts in the Fall of 2012 because SWA will begin service to Mexico sometime in 2015?
Please.

We haven't even announced what international cities we are going to serve in 2015. How can the UAL management team know that there is even going to be competition on any of their routes from IAH?

OK, I can see that most don't understand the problem here. Diverting Customs officials from IAH to HOU means that the IAH Federal Inspections Services Facility (FIS) won't be able to process passengers efficiently. I've been through the IAH FIS and it's very fast with current staffing. Cut the staff and there will be bottlenecks in the IAH FIS. I've been through understaffed FISs and have seen how they can have nightmarishly long lines that remind me of Disneyworld in the middle of the summer. ... it's a small world after all ... How do you do? Mighty pleasant greetin' How do you do? Say it when you're meetin' ... yo ho yo ho it's a pirate's life for me ... please stand clear of the doors - Por Favor Mantenganse Alejado de las Puertas ... (the last one took months to be erased)


What some suggest is that United should build up their international ops in IAH today because they can operate it normally for the next three years. What happens at the end of three years? They have to shift international flying to different hubs in order to alleviate the IAH bottleneck.
Questions. Why would you build up your hub when you know you have to draw it down in three years? Why not start shifting your international flying to other hubs that offer more efficient future processing of your international passengers?

At the moment, United has excess capacity at most of its hubs. The simple solution is to draw down international flying out of IAH and move it to other hubs that have current or projected future FIS passenger processing issues.

I know that Flop's been lamenting the projected loss of 1300 UAL jobs at IAH. Yes, many legacy CAL workers have moved from IAH. But those were office workers; UCH has moved headquarters to Willis Tower and do not need duplicate staff in IAH.
With the likely drawdown of UCH (legacy CAL) personnel at IAH, the groups that will be most impacted will be the baggage handlers and CSRs. Both of those jobs have a high turnover rate. Because of this, I suspect that there will be very few displaced workers - and that any displaced workers in these groups will be volunteers to go to DEN or LAX.
UCH will do some drawdown at IAH and expand in DEN and LAX. I expect all this means is that there will be a lot of hiring in DEN and LAX for baggage handlers and CSRs.

Will there be some shrinkage of crews at IAH and growth at DEN and LAX? Absolutely. But that won't create any problems; 737 DEN slots for pilots went extremely senior in the last bid. While LAX isn't quite as desirable, they shouldn't have problems remaining adequately manned.

 

[humveedriver]

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/nov/19/local/la-me-lax-customs-20111119

http://www.airlinequality.com/Airports/Airport_forum/iah.htm

LAX also has an issue with customs. Looks like long waits at IAH many times. Maybe Hobby can do more with less, as the aircraft will be smaller and you won't have hundreds of pax coming off of widebody's jamming up the system. Also those foreign wide body crews take forever to process in the crew lane. Each one has to get scanned and verified through interpol or something. Takes about 5-7 min per crewmembers versus a us crewmember takes less the one minute.

Checked USAjobs, no hiring of ICE agents right now. So you get what you get and you don't pitch a fit.

 

[Andy]

Exactly. Jeff had the press release typed up and was waiting to hit the Send button on the Fax machine when the City Council voted. SEE I TOLD YOU WE WOULD LOSE JOBS!

Weak, weak arguement. He planned it all along.

With respect to airports/capacity, I look at this as the complete inverse of 2000. I know - eons ago. Back in 2000, American Airlines ran out of airport capacity in both ORD and DFW. Their solution was to try to buy Northwest with their DTW and MSP hubs. They settled for TWA and STL. Fast forward two years and AMR had excess gate/airport capacity across their hubs.

With the current flying drawdown at most airlines, there's quite a bit of excess gate/airport capacity. When's the last time you read about airline slot limitations at an airport?

I see United's current situation the same way. Excess gate/airport capacity. I think that they're trying to rebuild the DEN hub which has been neglected for quite a while.
I'd say that UCH has fortress hub status at IAH and can reduce flying out of there for a while, especially with the B concourse construction that's currently taking place. I don't see a competitor moving into IAH; SWA was offered the bait and turned it down. I think that SWA moving to IAH would have been a big strategic problem for UCH; since they declined, there isn't likely anyone who will move in in large enough numbers to do damage to the UCH IAH hub.

Do I think that Houston will be undermanned by customs personnel in the long run? Not likely. But it may require another 50 cents/passenger in PFC fees in order to ensure that customs personnel are adequately manned. The stage is now set where that 50 cent charge will be assessed on both IAH and HOU passengers.

There are so many different levels to this chess game that we are unable to see. Someone who looks at any of this at face value is missing a very complex competition that's being waged. There are a lot of feints by each competitor; I don't know what's real and what's a deceptive maneuver.

I can say that the Houston city council thinks that United is bluffing, based on their comments on the news last night. While watching the news, I felt like I was watching rubes who were about to get fleeced by a dimunitive carpet bagger.

Let's fast forward 3 years. UCH has shrunk IAH personnel by 1300. The city of Houston is taking a revenue hit due to less passenger traffic through IAH. UCH offers to increase passenger traffic in exchange for some concessions, including securing additional customs personnel. What's the city of Houston going to do? I think that they'll give UCH whatever they want.

 

[Andy]

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/nov/19/local/la-me-lax-customs-20111119

http://www.airlinequality.com/Airports/Airport_forum/iah.htm

LAX also has an issue with customs. Looks like long waits at IAH many times. Maybe Hobby can do more with less, as the aircraft will be smaller and you won't have hundreds of pax coming off of widebody's jamming up the system. Also those foreign wide body crews take forever to process in the crew lane. Each one has to get scanned and verified through interpol or something. Takes about 5-7 min per crewmembers versus a us crewmember takes less the one minute.

Checked USAjobs, no hiring of ICE agents right now. So you get what you get and you don't pitch a fit.

I confess that I wasn't aware that LAX had customs delay issues.

The aircraft going into Hobby won't be smaller. You're flying 737s. There are a few widebodies coming into IAH but the bulk of the flights are narrowbodies - A320s and 737s. In fact, there are quite a few international RJs that fly into IAH.
Of the top 10 international destinations out of IAH in 2010, only 3 had widebodies (LHR, AMS, FRA). I suspect that AMS is no longer on the list and has been replaced with a narrowbody destination in Central/South America.

 

[Flopgut]

SWA doesn't have to worry about FIS and customs they have AT to 'splain it to them. 1. Bring passport 2. Stand in line 3. Don't use your cell phone . That should do it. That's some good propaganda though Flop. It's a shame you are wasting that talent here. You should be an op-ed writer or you could start a blog or something.

I'm talking about agents and rampers.

It sounds like some of these SWA guys are reffering to some sort of AOPA guide and stating "customs" already exists?! FIS is a much bigger deal than trying to catch some random Baron pilot trying to sneak in oranges and Cohibas. Bag match is the big deal. The CAL rampers and agents that SWA has caused to be displaced know all that stuff.

Don't think these CAL people deserve a shot? Fine. Go ahead and let each member of the City Council know that. Explain to them that even though GK claimed he would create 10,000 jobs, there is no room at SWA for them. People who've been in Houston for 20+ years, or in some cases generations. Show us all who you really are. Do it while the ink is still wet on your new deal.

*the last two paragraphs were more of a general statement and not directed directly at Humveedrvr