Hobby expansion passes; Southwest wins fight with United

[Flopgut]

Exactly. Jeff had the press release typed up and was waiting to hit the Send button on the Fax machine when the City Council voted. SEE I TOLD YOU WE WOULD LOSE JOBS!

Weak, weak arguement. He planned it all along.

Tell yourselves whatever you want. CAL kicked you out of IAH and you were too scared to come back. Had to have the govt prop you up.

Remember the other thread? About two months ago I told you guys that GK's real plan was to get a deal at Hobby that was exclusive. He wanted some deal that limited competition. Well what are we looking at here? 5 gates, with four of them for SWA only. That's been the plan all along. You guys can't compete.

 

[redflyer65]

We don't compete?

What about LAX, SFO, and DEN? I think we are doing quite well in more than a few cities. Again, weak Flop. Very weak.

The point is, your CEO planned on using this to cut IAH, plain and simple and you know it.

 

[737tanker]

Flop
Since United is cutting jobs at IAH because Hobby will take FIS staffing from IAH then why didn't United cut jobs at ORD because with the new announced SWA/AirTran service from MDW to Mexico the staffing for the MDW FIS had to come from ORD?

 

[SWA Bubba]

Tell yourselves whatever you want. CAL kicked you out of IAH and you were too scared to come back. Had to have the govt prop you up.

Remember the other thread? About two months ago I told you guys that GK's real plan was to get a deal at Hobby that was exclusive. He wanted some deal that limited competition. Well what are we looking at here? 5 gates, with four of them for SWA only. That's been the plan all along. You guys can't compete.

Hey Flop,

Please take some time away from this thread soon, so you don't have a coronary. However, I do have to take some issue with a few of these claims. As for CAL kicking us out of IAH, you can believe what you want. We had that one city pair (DAL-IAH), 3 or 4 times daily, and it wasn't profitable. Why? Because none of our passengers could connect anywhere. All of our other Houston flying was out of Hobby, as it's been since our inception in 1971. Turns out that flying that one particular city pair wasn't enough to justify the station.

By the way, that's the one thing I'd like to you actually explain to me--you kept saying we should do our international flying out of IAH for a "level playing field," and for "fair competition." In all honesty, how could that be fair? Please answer that, Flop. If we did our international flying out of IAH, all we could take would be local Houston passengers. NO connections; that would be 90% or more of Southest passengers couldn't fly over the border on us. NOBODY is going to fly into one airport and connect to their Mexico flight by getting their bags, leaving the airport, taking a 30 minute cab ride, and then going to a different airport to check their bags again and go through security again. Please tell me how you can see how competition where OUR connecting passengers do all that, while your connecting passengers merely walk from one gate to another, could be considered "fair" by any metric. Please tell me that.

Two other minor points: first, I think you have it backwards; I think it was United that the government has a history of propping up, not Southwest. Tell me ONE instance where the government "propped us up." Second, you bemoan us controlling 80% of the international gates at Hobby, yet Unical controls >85% of the international gates at IAH. That doesn't seem any more fair. At least we're paying to build all of our gates ourselves. If and when more carriers fly international at Hobby, they (or the airport) can build more gates. Seems easy enough.

Bubba

 

[humveedriver]

I'm talking about agents and rampers.

It sounds like some of these SWA guys are reffering to some sort of AOPA guide and stating "customs" already exists?! FIS is a much bigger deal than trying to catch some random Baron pilot trying to sneak in oranges and Cohibas. Bag match is the big deal. The CAL rampers and agents that SWA has caused to be displaced know all that stuff.

Don't think these CAL people deserve a shot? Fine. Go ahead and let each member of the City Council know that. Explain to them that even though GK claimed he would create 10,000 jobs, there is no room at SWA for them. People who've been in Houston for 20+ years, or in some cases generations. Show us all who you really are. Do it while the ink is still wet on your new deal.

*the last two paragraphs were more of a general statement and not directed directly at Humveedrvr

I know, I was just having fun. But here is the thing. Even AirTran had to have a first day of international operations. You live and learn. SWA will look at our model and adapt it to fit their operation. I predict that the procedural changes that SWA makes to handle international baggage, will have a dramatic effect on overall mishandle baggage reports for domestics ops.That's an area SWA is currently struggling with. So this will help I think.
It's not just SWA/other airline pilots calling UAL out over the latest job cut announcement. Many industry experts and reporters are making the same call against UAL as well. Also your boss plans to fire these people this year and Kelly isn't planning on launching intl ops until 2015 out of Hobby. Makes it hard to hire them. I hope those who can move do. Although on a much smaller scale SWA was not able to accomadate all of our DFW rampers and agents. They got put on a wait list for future openings (no transfer opportunities).

 

[FlyinGuy]

Holy Cow!!!

These guys actually believe this stuff.

 

[Britpilot]

Holy Cow!!!

These guys actually believe this stuff.

Really.

Jeff planned these cuts and is using the SWA Hobby Intl Ops as an excuse.


Nothing is going to happen for three years yet his cuts start in a few months.

imp:

 

[redflyer65]

As for CAL kicking us out of IAH, you can believe what you want. We had that one city pair (DAL-IAH), 3 or 4 times daily, and it wasn't profitable. Why? Because none of our passengers could connect anywhere. All of our other Houston flying was out of Hobby, as it's been since our inception in 1971. Turns out that flying that one particular city pair wasn't enough to justify the station.


Bubba

These facts don't fit well into Flops rant. This is exactly how it went down.

 

[Flopgut]

These facts don't fit well into Flops rant. This is exactly how it went down.

Understand that part of what SWA argued about not going to DFW all those years ago was that they never wanted to go there in the first place, that it was too expensive, delay prone, etc, etc. I'm pointing out that those same arguments seemed to surface recently about IAH, even though you had a station there at one point. Your argument changes to suit the airport you are trying to exploit.

Uh, so this "southwest effect" thingy, why didn't it work in IAH? I mean, it's suppose to be impervious to any legacy competition, right? Why are you citing the WA as some problem to your ongoing success at IAH? You could have left IAH and flown anywhere in the country. Point to point, is what you do, I thought. If we're suppose to belive all the stuff you claim you can do, why didn't you get it done at IAH?

Truth is, you weren't about to poke us with a stick, we would have got right after you at Hobby. We were a tough competitor you could not handle.

 

[Flopgut]

It's not just SWA/other airline pilots calling UAL out over the latest job cut announcement. Many industry experts and reporters are making the same call against UAL as well. Also your boss plans to fire these people this year and Kelly isn't planning on launching intl ops until 2015 out of Hobby.

In the relationship between CAL and the City of Houston, someone had to blink first. It was either CAL when they merged with UAL, or Houston when they approved SWA's terminal. Idk. But for now, it's spoiled. Maybe we can get it back on track. The cuts are very much tied to the windfall SWA was given. Period. Does not matter how far off it is. We have to cut our losses and go elsewhere.

 

[Double Shot]

Hey flop,


Tell me the story of cal light. How did that go down again? Who kicked whos butt? Tell me again the flight schedule that ran between cle and hou. Every thirty minutes you said. Your so full of crap.

Loser

 

[CA Calypso]

Flop,

You really need to step back and take a break my friend. You are so close to the issues that you can no longer see them clearly. Some of your posts are just not factual - they're all emotion driven.

 

[SKC]

In the relationship between CAL and the City of Houston, someone had to blink first. It was either CAL when they merged with UAL, or Houston when they approved SWA's terminal. Idk. But for now, it's spoiled. Maybe we can get it back on track. The cuts are very much tied to the windfall SWA was given. Period. Does not matter how far off it is. We have to cut our losses and go elsewhere.

You're right flop. I think that in 2023 Delta will expand their operations in SNA....SWA would be smart to cut our schedule now since it MAY happen later.

 

[Flopgut]

Hey flop,


Tell me the story of cal light. How did that go down again? Who kicked whos butt? Tell me again the flight schedule that ran between cle and hou. Every thirty minutes you said. Your so full of crap.

Loser

You're right flop. I think that in 2023 Delta will expand their operations in SNA....SWA would be smart to cut our schedule now since it MAY happen later.

You two are pretty good at mouthing off, and that's all.

SWA hits almost all airports in LA from all directions. If the SWA effect is real, then why didn't you not hit IAH from all directions? You guys keep talking about how LA and Houston are parallels. Sufficiently so that it factored into your argument that you derserved the terminal at Hobby. Bubba keeps making the point that if SWA had to go to IAH, your customers would have to drive from Hobby. Of course they would. If you guys wanted FIS at an LA airport, would you have one built at each airport? Or would someone at Burbank maybe have to drive somewhere? Or would the City maybe have to choose one central place for all the international traffic?

I think CAL lite went the same place al shuttle type operations did. They were bad ideas and were melded into the larger operation. It did have a lot to do with not being able to compete with SWA in that manner.

 

[vixin]

Give it a rest, get over it its done and get a life. How pathetic it must be to be you.:crying:

 

[FlyinGuy]

Understand that part of what SWA argued about not going to DFW all those years ago was that they never wanted to go there in the first place, that it was too expensive, delay prone, etc, etc. I'm pointing out that those same arguments seemed to surface recently about IAH, even though you had a station there at one point. Your argument changes to suit the airport you are trying to exploit.

Uh, so this "southwest effect" thingy, why didn't it work in IAH? I mean, it's suppose to be impervious to any legacy competition, right? Why are you citing the WA as some problem to your ongoing success at IAH? You could have left IAH and flown anywhere in the country. Point to point, is what you do, I thought. If we're suppose to belive all the stuff you claim you can do, why didn't you get it done at IAH?

Truth is, you weren't about to poke us with a stick, we would have got right after you at Hobby. We were a tough competitor you could not handle.

Why can't you get it through your head that SWA operated about 4-6 IAH -DAL flights per day. It was never going to be, nor was it intended to be a large operation for SWA. It was designed to capture a few of the north Houston folks that wanted to go to Dallas. It was deemed too expensive to continue that service and they wanted to put the planes on more profitable routes.

 

[FlyinGuy]

In the relationship between CAL and the City of Houston, someone had to blink first. It was either CAL when they merged with UAL, or Houston when they approved SWA's terminal. Idk. But for now, it's spoiled. Maybe we can get it back on track. The cuts are very much tied to the windfall SWA was given. Period. Does not matter how far off it is. We have to cut our losses and go elsewhere.

So what you are saying is that SWA has not even turned a wheel yet and you are starting to retreat to higher ground!!! Now that is what I would call the "Southwest Effect"!!!

 

[redflyer65]

Southwest Effect on steriods I guess. Maybe we should announce other possible plans and just shut UCal down completely. All with rumor of course.

 

[bluesideup1]

Flop,

I don't think I have ever seen anyone that is so delusional as you and this is coming from someone that has been on flight info long before they started charging for it.

To think that the Houston city government would limit competition based on past history and close ties is nothing short of cronyism and would border on corruption.

Something that would be common place in Chicago but even there the city government didn't try to limit Southwest through back channels and regulation. They allowed Southwest and numerous other airlines to operate both domestic and international out of Midway without almighty United signing off on it.

To think this would have turned out any different than it did would be incredibly naive. How would the city council explain their decision to discriminate against Southwest to the court from the lawsuit that would have followed. When Southwest offered to pay for a customs building that would bring more destinations and lower fares to the Houston metroplex let alone trying to explain that to the people of Houston that vote them into office.

 

[humveedriver]

Because of the costs and resources involved, I think the City could have gone either way with the decision and been fine in court. I think each city has a right to determine what's best for the city and citizens. Just because Chicago does it one way doesn't mean it necessarily would work for Houston. I think it made sense because Houston is a big, spread out city with challenging cross town traffic. In the end I think there will be enough business for both airports. The SWA model doesn't take away from UAL's top tier customers who want a full service airline. UAL is losing those customers on their own.