Citation Air April Negotiation Report- Part 1

[jonjuan]

Yep, be careful when deciding whether to write up a maintenance issue grounding the aircraft, cancelling when second segment doesn't compute or a wet runway means you don't have the numbers to go, etc. Because as a heads up, some owners define "great job" differently from others.

Yeah, I'm sure all the fortune 500 company pilots really worry about whether or not to write stuff up. They get fired all the time for minor stuff. If you can't explain something like second segment climb, you probably don't understand it.

 

[gunfyter]

Nobody understands it ...LOL

 

[imacdog]

Nobody understands it ...LOL

With as many true stories as there are of this happening, you have to wonder what rock some people live under.

Edit, I thought you were saying how no one understands that flight crews for private owners do get to deal with the reality of what I was saying, not about second segment.

 

[gunfyter]

oh ... the most important thing about working in a union shop to me ... is to not worry about stuff like that.... If its broke its broke ... if its too heavy its too heavy... etc..

My transitioning from military to civilian flying was initially a shocking experience....

 

[BentOver]

Working at a small 91/135 place can sometimes suck because no matter what is advertised or told to you, at some point you will be either pressured or expected to do something you don't want for the sake of your boss.... The boss is always happy til that one time you tell him you can't take-off and he'll have to stay a night in Podunk USA instead of make it home.

Probably alot different than working at a large Avantair/CS size place that even though there is not a Union, you're still afforded alot of room in that department.

For all the BS that a Union brings with it, I always liked the fact that I had certain protections. Not a Union die hard, but definitely liked being part of a Union.

 

[imacdog]

....and we haven't even gotten into how working on a managed plane often means being tied to your pager 24/7 instead of the cush schedule that most frax pilots enjoy.

 

[hangarrat]

Pager? What's a pager? Is that like a beeper? Do those even exist anymore?

 

[gret]

The CitationAir pilots are, or going to be, out of work.

I doubt that they are worried about "pagers", schedules, or doing something their boss wants to do.

They want a job rather than sitting at home and collecting unemployment with no job in sight.

As someone mentioned, 9 out of 10 workers are non union and they get by just fine.

 

[imacdog]

Pager? What's a pager? Is that like a beeper? Do those even exist anymore?

Wearing one for work right now, I guess that's why I mentioned it. No, I don't work as an old-skool pimp/drug dealer, but it still makes a fine fashion accessory. (along with my "onesie" uniform)

 

[BentOver]

As someone mentioned, 9 out of 10 workers are non union and they get by just fine.

I agree a job is way more important than worrying about the boss's desires...

9/10 workers may be non-union, but 9/10 workers aren't expected to work at anytime in a 24 hr period. Don't have to spend days on end away from home. Don't operate equipment that is both vital for operations and heavily regulated by the FAA. And when said equipment is broken, aren't pressured into breaking the FAA rules to get the boss home for dinner. An office worker's computer breaks they call ITT, sit there and blow bubbles til it's fixed and then go home for supper.

If I worked in an office at a regular 9-5.. Sure non union is fine. But when I am at the whim of a boss who may want to head to a business meeting unannounced, and then decides instead of going home (myself too) he wants to stay another night at his fancy hotel while I sleep in a Motel 8.. Then a Union is beneficial.

Also when the boss has his buddies on board and wants to "impress" them, right after take-off he wants coffee served to him, and you don't do it. You fall out of graces with him because you aren't his bit@h.

BTW, I don't have a problem serving coffee etc.. I do it out of kindness before I jump upfront. Like offering a guest a drink at my house. I don't do it because I'm the coffee and treat boy. (or FA)

 

[gret]

Any idea what percentage of business aviation pilots belong to a union?

 

[gunfyter]

Not enough ...

 

[rigger]

I agree a job is way more important than worrying about the boss's desires...

9/10 workers may be non-union, but 9/10 workers aren't expected to work at anytime in a 24 hr period. Don't have to spend days on end away from home. Don't operate equipment that is both vital for operations and heavily regulated by the FAA. And when said equipment is broken, aren't pressured into breaking the FAA rules to get the boss home for dinner. An office worker's computer breaks they call ITT, sit there and blow bubbles til it's fixed and then go home for supper.

If I worked in an office at a regular 9-5.. Sure non union is fine. But when I am at the whim of a boss who may want to head to a business meeting unannounced, and then decides instead of going home (myself too) he wants to stay another night at his fancy hotel while I sleep in a Motel 8.. Then a Union is beneficial.

Also when the boss has his buddies on board and wants to "impress" them, right after take-off he wants coffee served to him, and you don't do it. You fall out of graces with him because you aren't his bit@h.

BTW, I don't have a problem serving coffee etc.. I do it out of kindness before I jump upfront. Like offering a guest a drink at my house. I don't do it because I'm the coffee and treat boy. (or FA)

Then you work for the wrong guy if he treats you this bad.....Change jobs quit stop doing it, take a stand, be responsible for yourself. No one owns the job but the guy paying the Bills.....some suck some are great some blow, some don't, some screw you some give you the shirt off their back......look be an adult decide which battle to fight and hold on to your ideals...it will work out eventually.

every job has some form of suck....what is your level of suck acceptance, won't put up with much suck....so I choose if I don't like it not the boss....he needs my talents and my experience....has worked great for me and well its also sucked for me....buy its always up to me, not a union, or another person....me! I have had incredible help in the past from great folks....most I paid back many times some I messed up and screwed royally.....its life live up to what YOU make of it and don't hide......

As for being gone, The boss is gone also, he also goes out in meetings all day then usually has meetings through dinner, while we go to the super 8 and eat bon bons and watch TV, he then gets up and does meetings all the next day and we are laying by the pool, then he gets on the plane and most times he's doing paperwork......while we finally work! Yep we got it terrible......

 

[BentOver]

Then you work for the wrong guy if he treats you this bad.....Change jobs quit stop doing it, take a stand, be responsible for yourself. No one owns the job but the guy paying the Bills.....some suck some are great some blow, some don't, some screw you some give you the shirt off their back......look be an adult decide which battle to fight and hold on to your ideals...it will work out eventually.

every job has some form of suck....what is your level of suck acceptance, won't put up with much suck....so I choose if I don't like it not the boss....he needs my talents and my experience....has worked great for me and well its also sucked for me....buy its always up to me, not a union, or another person....me! I have had incredible help in the past from great folks....most I paid back many times some I messed up and screwed royally.....its life live up to what YOU make of it and don't hide......

As for being gone, The boss is gone also, he also goes out in meetings all day then usually has meetings through dinner, while we go to the super 8 and eat bon bons and watch TV, he then gets up and does meetings all the next day and we are laying by the pool, then he gets on the plane and most times he's doing paperwork......while we finally work! Yep we got it terrible......

I did quit..why do you think I chose Netjets:beer:...

 

[imacdog]

"Take a stand"

That's a great idea! You could, say, put a legally binding contract in place that says the pilots will not be terminated for refusing to break regulations. I like it, what could we call it, hmm, starts with a "u".....