Delta: The king of overbooking

[jetstream]

Well its 0200 and I'm sitting at a computer looking at loads. Why? My daughter has been stranded for over a day now. Every time we find a flight (going anywhere) it looks like she could get out on, when the time comes the standby list suddenly fills up with revenue pax bumped from a previous flight because over overbooking.

 

[shon7]

just buy a ticket on Southwest. worst case - buy it on Delta.

 

[8sugarsugar]

^ agree

airlines aren't in the business to provide free and easy non-rev to their employees. Its a perk that isn't what it used to be. If I really need to be somewhere, I just fork up the extra money.

 

[SpyFlysDOTs]

Jetstream, it's spring break!
AA and DFW had quite a few flight cx due to hail.
Bad time to nonrev no matter which airline.

 

[jetstream]

Jetstream, it's spring break!

Spring break didn't cause the problem. The sudden appearance of involuntary bumps from previous flights did. As I said, she would show up for a flight that it looked like she would make only to have a bunch of bumped passengers appear on the standby list and push her off.

Can't count how many times a week I walk past a gate and hear announcments asking for volunteers cause the fight is oversold.

Bought her a ticket on SouthWest.

Over and out.

 

[regionalcap]

When you have generally full flights on a holiday weekend it is to be expected. Passengers miss their connections so it just rolls down hill. Bad time of the year to nonrev.

 

[Jar Jar]

How old is your daughter?

 

[nwaf16dude]

Well its 0200 and I'm sitting at a computer looking at loads. Why? My daughter has been stranded for over a day now. Every time we find a flight (going anywhere) it looks like she could get out on, when the time comes the standby list suddenly fills up with revenue pax bumped from a previous flight because over overbooking.

I sympathize with your plight as I have been there myself, but to assume that it is caused by overbooking is a stretch. Sure, there is some overbooking, but it's more likely that it is caused by missed connections from earlier late or cancelled flights.

 

[Andy]

Well its 0200 and I'm sitting at a computer looking at loads. Why? My daughter has been stranded for over a day now. Every time we find a flight (going anywhere) it looks like she could get out on, when the time comes the standby list suddenly fills up with revenue pax bumped from a previous flight because over overbooking.

Unfortunately, that's the new normal in nonrevving. I don't care what time of year it is; the flights are full. You have to choose something like midweek or Saturday travel to have a chance of nonrevving. And it has to be the first flight of the day to have the best chance.
It stinks but that's the way it's been for a while now. I don't like giving nonrev passes to people for this reason.
I recommend that, in the future, you consider having a ZED positive space ticket as a backup. Hope this helps.

Edit: When I only had nonrev tickets available to me, no jumpseat and no ZED while on furlough, I would buy fully refundable advance tickets on Southwest/AirTran/other carriers. I'd buy them a few weeks in advance and made them for flights after my last nonrev option. They weren't too expensive and I would cancel them when I got a nonrev seat. I think that the best fully refundable deals were on AirTran and second Southwest. ... just another tool to consider.

 

[scoreboardII]

How old is your daughter?

Nice......

 

[nwaf16dude]

Unfortunately, that's the new normal in nonrevving. I don't care what time of year it is; the flights are full. You have to choose something like midweek or Saturday travel to have a chance of nonrevving. And it has to be the first flight of the day to have the best chance.
It stinks but that's the way it's been for a while now. I don't like giving nonrev passes to people for this reason..

Definitely agree. The accountants running the airlines these days are doing there best to prevent us flying with a single empty seat, which means there is no shock absorber in the system anywhere. One cancelled or significantly delayed flight and the whole day is screwed for that station. I spent a whole day trying to get from MEM to ATL not long ago with two of my daughters. First flight of the day (full CRJ7) cancelled for MX and instantly the rest of the day was overbooked. Finally got on the last flight of the day.

Just got back from a 4 day trip with 9 legs (8 757 and 1 767)...had a cockpit jumpseater due to being completely full on every leg but one.

 

[jonjuan]

Definitely agree. The accountants running the airlines these days are doing there best to prevent us flying with a single empty seat, which means there is no shock absorber in the system anywhere. One cancelled or significantly delayed flight and the whole day is screwed for that station. I spent a whole day trying to get from MEM to ATL not long ago with two of my daughters. First flight of the day (full CRJ7) cancelled for MX and instantly the rest of the day was overbooked. Finally got on the last flight of the day.

Just got back from a 4 day trip with 9 legs (8 757 and 1 767)...had a cockpit jumpseater due to being completely full on every leg but one.

The flip side is that it's great for profits as fares are up with supply being limited. All things being equal, it makes for a better negotiating position to be in for higher pay rates.

 

[IBNAV8R]

Countless times while commuting, there would be a simple delay earlier in the day . More than a few times, I've heard the agents telling families on vacation that, because they missed their connection, the soonest they could confirm them was several days hence. As much as I can't stand the thought of gov't screwing things up, I'm amazed the airlines can get away with this sort of thing.

I mean, if airlines are supposedly SO VITAL to the transportation system (i.e. the supposed reason we are still under the RLA) there SHOULD be enough capacity to cover issues which are entirely foreseeable. There will ALWAYS be weather, maintenance, ATC delays and cancellations. And, as long as airlines run tight on staffing, crew delays and cancellations are inevitable as well.

 

[jonjuan]

Countless times while commuting, there would be a simple delay earlier in the day . More than a few times, I've heard the agents telling families on vacation that, because they missed their connection, the soonest they could confirm them was several days hence. As much as I can't stand the thought of gov't screwing things up, I'm amazed the airlines can get away with this sort of thing.

I mean, if airlines are supposedly SO VITAL to the transportation system (i.e. the supposed reason we are still under the RLA) there SHOULD be enough capacity to cover issues which are entirely foreseeable. There will ALWAYS be weather, maintenance, ATC delays and cancellations. And, as long as airlines run tight on staffing, crew delays and cancellations are inevitable as well.

If they did what you suggested and held every flight or underbooked so that everyone got the next flight, this family would bitch about paying $1,000 for a ticket. They brought this Walmart system on themselves. Now they demand free cokes when oil is $120/barrel?
You sound like the chumps who bitch about being delayed because of a massive weather system. "But my BFF just told me the weather is fine where we are going."

 

[Andy]

If they did what you suggested and held every flight or underbooked so that everyone got the next flight, this family would bitch about paying $1,000 for a ticket. They brought this Walmart system on themselves. Now they demand free cokes when oil is $120/barrel?

I agree. Excess available capacity comes at a price.
Around 9/11, systemwide load factors in the 70 percentile were profitable. Today, systemwide load factors need to be above 80 percent.
For March, Delta had an 84.4 percent load factor. In spite of the high load factor, Delta trimmed its first quarter profit forecast.

 

[scoreboardII]

I'll have to say, bitching about non revving over Easter weekend, really?

 

[nwaf16dude]

I'll have to say, bitching about non revving over Easter weekend, really?

excellent point

 

[IBNAV8R]

If they did what you suggested and held every flight or underbooked so that everyone got the next flight, this family would bitch about paying $1,000 for a ticket. They brought this Walmart system on themselves. Now they demand free cokes when oil is $120/barrel?
You sound like the chumps who bitch about being delayed because of a massive weather system. "But my BFF just told me the weather is fine where we are going."

We're not talking 50% load factors but, a single missed connection, MX cancellation or an afternoon thunderstorm should NOT cause a multiple-day delay in getting to the destination.

So, reliable air transportation is SO IMPORTANT to the national infrastructure that we have special rules (NRLA) which essentially excludes transportation workers (us) from effective recourse from unfair labor practices and bargaining for fair wages.

Yet, somehow, it is NOT SO IMPORTANT that we can't guarantee to get passengers to their destination after foreseeable, relatively-minor events.

Is reliable air transportation that vital, or not? If not, why are we still shackled under RLA?

 

[TNPILOT]

I'll have to say, bitching about non revving over Easter weekend, really?

Kind of what I was thinking as well. To blame overbooking in this situation is a stretch. But hey my wife road along on my 24 hr Aruba overnight this weekend. Got 1st class as well. Do that a few times a year plus a vacation or two and it's hard to say nonreving is a worthless benefit. You just have to be flexible in how you use it.

Bottom line, nonreving is a great perk when you don't absolutely have to be somewhere and are flexible with your dates, times, and sometimes locations. My wife and I have travelled all over the world with few problems. You just have to be smart about it. When you're heading to a wedding or some other event you can't miss, buy a ticket and skip the stress. I still consider nonreving a good benefit personally but I tend to skip the popular destinations at peak times.

 

[jonjuan]

We're not talking 50% load factors but, a single missed connection, MX cancellation or an afternoon thunderstorm should NOT cause a multiple-day delay in getting to the destination.

So, reliable air transportation is SO IMPORTANT to the national infrastructure that we have special rules (NRLA) which essentially excludes transportation workers (us) from effective recourse from unfair labor practices and bargaining for fair wages.

Yet, somehow, it is NOT SO IMPORTANT that we can't guarantee to get passengers to their destination after foreseeable, relatively-minor events.

Is reliable air transportation that vital, or not? If not, why are we still shackled under RLA?

You're absolutely right. Every single MX, wx event or weather delay results in multiple days delay in getting to the destination. The air transport system currently in place is a disaster and it's destroying the national infrastructure.
You're non-revving during Easter and somehow find the nads to bitch about getting bumped? Unreal. Next time, drive.

 

[IBNAV8R]

You're absolutely right. Every single MX, wx event or weather delay results in multiple days delay in getting to the destination. The air transport system currently in place is a disaster and it's destroying the national infrastructure.
You're non-revving during Easter and somehow find the nads to bitch about getting bumped? Unreal. Next time, drive.

Except I'm not the one bitching about non-revving on a long weekend. That IS kinda stupid. I'm planning to travel over Christmas. Yup, buying full fare tix.

Here's my point: Choose one and only one.

A. Reliable air transportation is SO VITAL to the national economy and infrastructure that we have to have special rules which essentially forbid pilots from ANY kind of recourse when they are getting F'd over by management - No strike, no sickout, no "fly-to-rule" campaigns, etc.

-OR-

B. Reliable air transportation is NOT SO VITAL that we have no obligation to get anyone anywhere within any sort of reasonable time - say 12 hours for foreseeable short-term events, (P.M. T-storms, MX cancellations, missed connections, etc.) or, within 24 hours of the end of a SIGNIFICANT weather event (Blizzard, floods, fog lasting several days, etc.)

 

[Flybywire44]

Well its 0200 and I'm sitting at a computer looking at loads. Why? My daughter has been stranded for over a day now. Every time we find a flight (going anywhere) it looks like she could get out on, when the time comes the standby list suddenly fills up with revenue pax bumped from a previous flight because over overbooking.

This is the wrong time of year to nonRev... Stick to Winter/Fall/early AM flights on Wednesdays and Holiday Days. =/

 

[mokitty]

Bought her a ticket on SouthWest.

Over and out.

Thank you

 

[Andy]

This is the wrong time of year to nonRev... Stick to Winter/Fall/early AM flights on Wednesdays and Holiday Days. =/

For anyone who wants to use my passes, I tell them 1) first flight of day, 2) Tues-Thurs + Sat, and 3) slow time of year.
Despite my discouragement, my niece used a nonrev pass during the summer. She got from MKE to ORD on the first flight of the day. Her destination was DEN. She spent the rest of the day going between flights to DEN and COS. Finally made the last flight of the day to COS. That was a couple of years ago. She's nonreved once since then, with my daughter.
They flew during the Christmas holiday to Europe. I had to fly them into GVA a few days before Christmas and out of ZRH a week after New Years. But they did get C class both ways. I told them to forget about getting into Italy, France, UK, or Germany (other destinations during their trip) because the flights were too full.

 

[jonjuan]

For anyone who wants to use my passes, I tell them 1) first flight of day, 2) Tues-Thurs + Sat, and 3) slow time of year.
Despite my discouragement, my niece used a nonrev pass during the summer. She got from MKE to ORD on the first flight of the day. Her destination was DEN. She spent the rest of the day going between flights to DEN and COS. Finally made the last flight of the day to COS. That was a couple of years ago. She's nonreved once since then, with my daughter.
They flew during the Christmas holiday to Europe. I had to fly them into GVA a few days before Christmas and out of ZRH a week after New Years. But they did get C class both ways. I told them to forget about getting into Italy, France, UK, or Germany (other destinations during their trip) because the flights were too full.

Neat story.

 

[doh]

Except I'm not the one bitching about non-revving on a long weekend. That IS kinda stupid. I'm planning to travel over Christmas. Yup, buying full fare tix.

Here's my point: Choose one and only one.

A. Reliable air transportation is SO VITAL to the national economy and infrastructure that we have to have special rules which essentially forbid pilots from ANY kind of recourse when they are getting F'd over by management - No strike, no sickout, no "fly-to-rule" campaigns, etc.

-OR-

B. Reliable air transportation is NOT SO VITAL that we have no obligation to get anyone anywhere within any sort of reasonable time - say 12 hours for
foreseeable short-term events, (P.M. T-storms, MX cancellations, missed connections, etc.) or, within 24 hours of the end of a SIGNIFICANT weather event (Blizzard, floods, fog lasting several days, etc.)

+1 The current system is FUBAR.

 

[AirMorgan]

I stupidly took the whole fam damily to HNL on Easter Sun. We got there no problem. Getting home was a nightmare. Spent 17 hours at the airport and got bumped 5 times. Couldn't get 1 family member out. Before we left there were 21 open in first with only 7 listed for the flight home. But with all the upgrades they offer and all the overbooked flights I ended up spending $3400 to get us all home....4 days later. Won't be going back to HNL over spring break again!

At least we were trapped in HNL!

Aloha

 

[Full of LUV]

I stupidly took the whole fam damily to HNL on Easter Sun. We got there no problem. Getting home was a nightmare. Spent 17 hours at the airport and got bumped 5 times. Couldn't get 1 family member out. Before we left there were 21 open in first with only 7 listed for the flight home. But with all the upgrades they offer and all the overbooked flights I ended up spending $3400 to get us all home....4 days later. Won't be going back to HNL over spring break again!

At least we were trapped in HNL!

Aloha

I live here on Oahu, if you want to non-rev you really need to look at October or Feb, other than that, it is usually a nightmare. I've seen the nonrev list over 200 for an oversold flight for a week before during the summer. Thanksgiving to New years is high season in Hawaii along with spring and summer.
Aloha!