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Expressjet Globalized PBS?

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SoberIrishman

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 7, 2005
Posts
445
What the heck are you guys at (legacy) Expressjet thinking? Sureley you can't be serious? It's not possible to be that stupid and fly a $25m jet...or maybe you were born that way!
There is no way that a Globalzed PBS will work for any of us here at ASA...we have the best PBS around, and I was against PBS at the very outset. Ask any ASA pilot and they will tell you the truth.

Anyone at ASA that doesn't get the fairest schedule possible out of the current system is screwing up somewhere with their bidding options due to ignorance or laziness somewhere along the line. After you know how to work it, it is just BRILLIANT for most of us. Simply AWESOME for me at mid seniority.....and the overwhelming number of pilots at ASA are VERY HAPPY with it. DO NOT CHANGE WHAT WORKS GOOD for heaven's sake!

You will eventually get PBS, and it had better not be one that takes away a trip from a senior pilot, and gives said pilot something of lesser quality just to make the solution better for the company. You all need to wake up and take some time off to figure this out, or try out your damn socialized PBS on your own and see how you like it.

Looks like you (legacy) Expressjet guys are going to be more trouble than you're worth if this is what you come up with. I am sure many of us here in ATL are prepared to look at it, but most, if not all, will be inclined to say shove it where the sun doesn't shine.

We need to work together to come up with sensible solutions to achieving the best contract, but this is not a good beginning.

It is quite unbelievable that a group of people who were so against PBS to begin with should entertain something even worse. Absolutely and totally stupid.... I almost lost for words.

I have to open a bottle now I am so shocked with all of this.
 
SoberIrishman said:
What the heck are you guys at (legacy) Expressjet thinking? Sureley you can't be serious? It's not possible to be that stupid and fly a $25m jet...or maybe you were born that way!
There is no way that a Globalzed PBS will work for any of us here at ASA...we have the best PBS around, and I was against PBS at the very outset. Ask any ASA pilot and they will tell you the truth.

Anyone at ASA that doesn't get the fairest schedule possible out of the current system is screwing up somewhere with their bidding options due to ignorance or laziness somewhere along the line. After you know how to work it, it is just BRILLIANT for most of us. Simply AWESOME for me at mid seniority.....and the overwhelming number of pilots at ASA are VERY HAPPY with it. DO NOT CHANGE WHAT WORKS GOOD for heaven's sake!

You will eventually get PBS, and it had better not be one that takes away a trip from a senior pilot, and gives said pilot something of lesser quality just to make the solution better for the company. You all need to wake up and take some time off to figure this out, or try out your damn socialized PBS on your own and see how you like it.

Looks like you (legacy) Expressjet guys are going to be more trouble than you're worth if this is what you come up with. I am sure many of us here in ATL are prepared to look at it, but most, if not all, will be inclined to say shove it where the sun doesn't shine.

We need to work together to come up with sensible solutions to achieving the best contract, but this is not a good beginning.

It is quite unbelievable that a group of people who were so against PBS to begin with should entertain something even worse. Absolutely and totally stupid.... I almost lost for words.

I have to open a bottle now I am so shocked with all of this.
Click to expand...

??? I think you misunderstand what "Globalized Means"
 
SoberIrishman said:
I am aware that it ignores seniority. We all pay our dues.
Click to expand...

The same way that unstacking ignores seniority, or is this different?

I am really open to hearing about other systems. The biggest issue though is that the union must be in charge of building pairings (or at least have definitive veto power) and be able to control the window. Also there must be language in the contract regarding minimum staffing (block hours/pilot).
 
SiuDude said:
The same way that unstacking ignores seniority, or is this different?

I am really open to hearing about other systems. The biggest issue though is that the union must be in charge of building pairings (or at least have definitive veto power) and be able to control the window. Also there must be language in the contract regarding minimum staffing (block hours/pilot).
Click to expand...

I'll bite... how does unstacking ignore seniority? It starts from the bottom up, for crying out loud.
 
How many Continental pilots promote the PBS system they have, and how many ASA guys do likewise? Think about this.
Simple.
Any system that ignores seniority is not acceptabe. So how does a Globalized system work with seniority?
If the company likes it, then it needs a closer look. A real close look.

Explain please.....you folks at Expressjet that are proposing this have a lot of convincing to do.
 
It takes a trip the senior pilot wanted and could hold and awards it to a junior pilot to make the solution run better. Ergo......ignores seniority.
 
The proposed "Globalized" PBS only looks at a 40% view of honoring seniority and the remaining 60% doesn't take seniority into consideration. This will be worse than EITHER system currently being used.

It is simply BS, and NOT ACCEPTABLE in any form. Period, end of story.
 
This is a case of, 'if we can't use our system......you can't use yours!'
 
Not exactly...feel free to try out your system, and let us know how it goes. I am certain the ASA system would be the best choice for all.
Just don't think anything that IGNORES seniority is viable.

Once again, something like this is NOT and NEVER will be acceptable to the vast majority of ASA pilots since we really do like what we have right now. You might like your line bidding, but we have all seen a great improvement since we moved away from that. Forget about worrying that you cannot exend your vacation...we can do that no problem at all, and not lose a cent in the process. To move forward from here, we need control of trip construction, and we should be all set.

What on Earth does it take for us to make you Xjet guys see sense?

Give it a whirl if you like, but don't expect to push it on us easily.

ASA did not "take over" Expressjet, Skywest Inc did, and we at ASA are caught in the middle with SKYW watching the fun. They want to get this settled ASAP to get their costs in line for future flying bids, so we better all get on board and protect our own interests before we end up giving the company something they want such as a PBS system that will screw us all big time.

Word is they don't like the current PBS we have, so, go figure, what does that say?

Anyone that thinks a "Globalized" PBS is good for the average pilot is seriously misinformed.
 
SoberIrishman said:
How many Continental pilots promote the PBS system they have, and how many ASA guys do likewise? Think about this.
Simple.
Any system that ignores seniority is not acceptabe. So how does a Globalized system work with seniority?
If the company likes it, then it needs a closer look. A real close look.

Explain please.....you folks at Expressjet that are proposing this have a lot of convincing to do.
Click to expand...

Who are the people promoting it? You say us at ExpressJet so who is it?

Oh wait I am sure you have no idea who all these people are. Just another made up story by another lifer at ASA that was told this info by some union guy or heard someone in a crewroom. Please don't say it's our MEC because that is getting old. I could start saying your MEC is talking about line bidding now and dumping your PBS system. I want names of ALL these ExpressJet pilots that are promoting this.
 
Thanks for your reply.

Yes, I am a so-called "lifer" at ASA, and proud as heck about it, and also glad to be at a company that has looked after me over so many years. Granted, it has changed, and is not as personable, maybe I am just another number nowadays, but here is a name for you to think about in answer to your question....

Steve McKnight
XJT Scheduling Committee Chairman

If this is your idea of the way forward there is no hope...

Regards.
 
Have any of you talked to Steve ....or are just saying his name because you have heard it? Just asking. He will talk to you on the CRJ side, ask your rep for his number. Just wondering. BTW...CAL's system sucks, however, PBS bulid PAIRINGS not RULES. SmartPref, far and away allows for more rules to be applied. Globalization at CAL sucks because THEIR contract RULES and PBS control sucks. Stop thinking it is about the PBS system ....it is your CONTRACT, CONTROL, AND RULES that dictate how good a PBS system is. However, lets all just agree to not have PBS and all this bullshiit goes away. I could care less about making managements job easier. If it is too hard, then they can quit. All this PBS stuff sounds like Charlie Brown's teacher to me. Meaning I have, and still am learning about it, as to not be an uneducated a$$ when I talk about it with other pilots. Yet when i hear the union or the Company talk about it, especially push it.....all I hear is "whaw whant whan"
 
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SoberIrishman said:
Thanks for your reply.

Yes, I am a so-called "lifer" at ASA, and proud as heck about it, and also glad to be at a company that has looked after me over so many years. Granted, it has changed, and is not as personable, maybe I am just another number nowadays, but here is a name for you to think about in answer to your question....

Steve McKnight
XJT Scheduling Committee Chairman

If this is your idea of the way forward there is no hope...

Regards.
Click to expand...

Have you ever contacted Steve? He's been posting his email address all over. If you want to discuss PBS I'm sure he'd be happy to talk with you. [email protected]
 
Now, all of a sudden the XJET guys wanna discuss PBS.
 
DHPFLYN said:
Who are the people promoting it? You say us at ExpressJet so who is it?

Oh wait I am sure you have no idea who all these people are. Just another made up story by another lifer at ASA that was told this info by some union guy or heard someone in a crewroom. Please don't say it's our MEC because that is getting old. I could start saying your MEC is talking about line bidding now and dumping your PBS system. I want names of ALL these ExpressJet pilots that are promoting this.
Click to expand...

Just curious why you term "lifer" as a degrading remark- like he is at a handicap because he decided to stay here, rather than chase that nice and shiny UPS 757. I take it by your avatar that you want to go there............along with another 20k applicants???? It must be nice to be entitled to another job. I wouldn't know- as I am having to bust hump, pay some dues, and work hard for the privelage and opportunity to move on. Those that use the "lifer" slang tend to fit this bill- I'm entitled to move on.Thusly, I can burn down the house and throw a hissy while I bite the hand that feeds. Perhaps my falling on the sword will better my resume- after all, I did trash the former employer for whom I worked.......
 
79%N1 said:
Now, all of a sudden the XJET guys wanna discuss PBS.
Click to expand...

Yes- in order to get a worse system in place, such that it will infuriate the pilot group. Perhaps the motive is to tick us off and get us right back, in a back handed approach, to line bidding.

Open time- just more stuff to pin on reserves and cost money. Perhaps another match for burning the house down.
 
JumpersAway said:
Yes- in order to get a worse system in place, such that it will infuriate the pilot group. Perhaps the motive is to tick us off and get us right back, in a back handed approach, to line bidding.

Open time- just more stuff to pin on reserves and cost money. Perhaps another match for burning the house down.
Click to expand...

Hmmm. Good point.

And I just love this demand for a huge open time pot! 'I want to be able to improve my schedule, therefor, you must sit reserve when you could have been a line holder too!'
 
Too much speculation. let the xjet guys tailor their system, do some trial runs, then they can bring it head to head with flica for all of us to try, then each pilot group votes.
 
777forever said:
Too much speculation. let the xjet guys tailor their system, do some trial runs, then they can bring it head to head with flica for all of us to try, then each pilot group votes.
Click to expand...

What is this? ....an unbiased post that actually makes sense and isn't inflammatory? There's no room for that kind of stuff in here, sir.
 
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You do realize that many in the XJT union and scheduling committee are "lifers" as well right? When you say globalization is bad that is like our vocal few saying PBS is bad, there is more to it than just what you have heard. Smartpref globalization is not like the Carmen (CAL) or NavTech (SKW) globalization but you want to be ignorant and lump them all together just like the idiots at XJT that want to lump all PBS systems together. Our scheduling committee has spent a lot of time working with Flightline PBS and running bids with EWR pairings and they have not seen an increase in QOL for the pilot group as a whole. Let us test run smartpref for a bit and see what we can do, there is no reason not to study everything out there. Smartpref has new software that they have been working on for 7 years, that is why there aren't any customers because it is relatively new. I am not sold on anything but I find it funny that you say it doesn't honor seniority because it is a globalized system just like our guys says PBS will only give you 7 days vacation, stop being hypocrites and do some research. I bet not one of you will email Steve and talk to him about this, he is one of the last few guys in XJT ALPA that most of us trust. It is funny that your vocal minority keeps posting this stuff every few days to try and get the mob angry over this. XJT and ASA pilots want to same thing in the end, a good contract and a financially healthy company. We aren't out to make your life miserable. If you have a financial investment in Flightline (which I know some at ASA do) then that is your problem but stop putting out lies on the forums stating that Smartpref does not honor seniority just because someone told you so. Let get the facts and then we can all vote together on a JCBA. We won't vote in a system that does not honor seniority or decrease the QOL for either group.
 
The truth is, you will never get the truth from either MEC. They're going to sell you whatever they decide is what they want to sell.
 
It seems pretty obvious to me. XJET MEC knows they might have to swallow PBS. They also know that the seniority lists favor ASA in longevity. So why not embrace a bidding system that disregards seniority.

Rather than raise the bar, they want to sink the morale for all.

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk
 
Oakum_Boy said:
The truth is, you will never get the truth from either MEC. They're going to sell you whatever they decide is what they want to sell.
Click to expand...

This is true. I didn't think it could get any uglier between the two sides but it has. The 2 sides had to stay in separate hotels last week in Houston to prevent fights from breaking out. The XJT MEC is pushing PBS without telling their pilots. The ASA MEC is now considering a globalized PBS system to appease a hostile and juvenile XJT MEC. This is all being done under a veil of secrecy.

Regarding a financial connection, there is one between certain XJT pilots and Smartpref. Hmmm.
 
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ASApuppy said:
They also know that the seniority lists favor ASA in longevity. So why not embrace a bidding system that disregards seniority.

Rather than raise the bar, they want to sink the morale for all.
k
Click to expand...

BINGO!!! ASA side more senior, makes sense to me. And now another long thread on this!
 

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