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Is spirit the next southwest?

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i fly boxes

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Jan 12, 2006
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With spirits growth plans for the next 10 years and their ultra low cost business model, do you guys think in 20-30 years spirit will have hundreds of aircraft making huge profits or do you think as the legacies get younger and revamp their fleets they will be able to keep passengers from spirit.
 
I think Spirit will be around for sure, their model is ultra low cost, and lots of families who otherwise couldn't afford the legacies (or even SWA) will travel on Spirit. I wouldn't exactly call them the next Southwest. Spirit's plans for their fleet growth don't include hundreds of aircraft. So far they just firmed up an order for 75, and that should take them through the next 10 years.
 
Next Southwest? No.

Will they be around down the road? Absolutely. They do fill a niche, and are doing so pretty well.
 
Yes, because they are a low cost carrier, while Southwest no longer is, and the employees don't know it's not.

No, because people will not be loyal customers like Southwest has built up by charging them $45 to carry a bag onto the flight.

If Spirit makes money this year, I say they have staying power.
 
Or $3 for a soda. Or $10 for a paper ticket.
 
Grew up in Texas(one of SWA early cities) in the 70's, 80's early 90's. I work for NKS and I am not saying we will be the next SWA but some of the same stuff that is said about us was tossed around back then about SWA.
 
Again, SWA never nickle and dimed the customers to death. There's only so much people will take.
 
Fubijaakr said:
Again, SWA never nickle and dimed the customers to death. There's only so much people will take.
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No, SWA will just build the cost into the fares which are no longer competitive in many markets! You work for Alaska, and don't know anything about the Spirit model or what has happened to the SWA model. As a consumer (and wife of a pilot) I do. I hate having to go on an emergency overnight or out and back trip with no real bag and pay $900 round trip on a legacy or the SWA maximum for a 1 1/2 hour flight. I love the Spirit model where I can book that same trip and jump on board and not have to pay for someone else's luggage. If I want to buy a water, I do. If I want to buy it at the airport I do. It's my choice. I fly SWA less and less now because it's not meeting my business travel needs.
 
Spirit model, RyanAir model, Skybus model, FlyI model....

Seems like a lot of commonality. Only one long term success so far, though, and its in Europe where the distances are much shorter.
 
Wow, 4 posts and someone is a little touchy. I guess hubby must be a Spirit pilot...

Sorry, Honey, but the "success" of the bare bones model over the long haul isn't well documented. And that's EXACTLY the subject under discussion.
 
I don't know why it says 4 posts; I've been on here for years. I've helped many with their resumes, helped a former moderator who was fired by Airtran and reinstated (now with SWA), argued with Flopgut, etc. So, you are wrong on every count. Good day, I'm logging out.
 
"Outta here" means different things to different folks, apparently.
 
Fubijaakr said:
Again, SWA never nickle and dimed the customers to death. There's only so much people will take.
Click to expand...

Not sure how often you buy tickets, but I buy (and recommend) often, and I have to say one of the most expensive airlines out there for domestic travel is SWA. Spirit is cheap, only because they've taken everything out of the base fare. SWA is expensive because everything is included, 2 checked bags, drinks/snacks, etc. There is NO such thing as "free bags!" You pay, everyone pays for it on SWA. It's just included in your price for the ticket. For Spirit, I've seen that even adding bag fees (28 for the checked + 30 for my carryon) the fare still comes out much lower than SWA's fare in many markets.

And a lot of people today are driven by price for airline tickets. Loyalty can easily be changed if someone else can fly them to their destination cheaper. Spirit has adapted to the changing environment and has been successful, announcing around 30 million in profit every quarter in 2011. If you can make money in the worst of times, they'll definitely be around for quite some time to come!
 
Look, I'm not saying you're wrong. However, its the same tack Skybus tried and it didn't work.

If Spirit can make it work, they'll succeed.
 
Fubijaakr said:
Look, I'm not saying you're wrong. However, its the same tack Skybus tried and it didn't work.

If Spirit can make it work, they'll succeed.
Click to expand...

No way. Skybus's model was flawed. One of their biggest drawbacks was their lack of ability to connect through their own hub at CMH! If you had to fly from Burbank to Orlando, you'd have to buy a ticket from Burbank to Columbus, go to arrivals, pick up your bag, and then recheck in again at CMH on Skybus. Not even Ryan air does that! If you can't seamlessly connect passengers on your own airline, then you are flawed. Skybus also had other failures, like offering 10 dollar tickets for a fixed amount of seats on every plane. Might be an okay idea if you have a full boat, but if you only fill 50 seats, and 10 were sold at 10 bucks, then you'll never make money. Spirit is very dynamic, their fares change constantly, just like every other legacy/major airline.
 
Pretty good for an airline with 38 airplanes.....

Spirit Airlines Announces Third Quarter 2011 Results

MIRAMAR, Fla., Oct. 27, 2011 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Spirit Airlines, Inc. (Nasdaq:SAVE) today reported third quarter 2011 financial results.

Net income for the third quarter was $28.6 million, or $0.39 per diluted share, excluding $1.5 million ($0.9 million net of tax) of unrealized fuel hedge losses and special items. GAAP net income was $27.7 million, or $0.38 per diluted share.

Operating income was $46.1 million, resulting in a 16.0% operating margin, excluding $1.5 million of unrealized fuel hedge losses and special items. GAAP operating income was $44.6 million for the third quarter 2011, resulting in a 15.4% operating margin.

EBITDAR for the third quarter 2011 was $77.4 million, resulting in an EBITDAR margin of 26.8%, excluding unrealized fuel hedge losses and special items.

Spirit ended the quarter with $351 million in unrestricted cash.
"In this period of economic uncertainty, customers are looking to save money and our strong third quarter results demonstrate the power of Spirit's low fares to stimulate demand in the marketplace," said Ben Baldanza, Spirit's President and Chief Executive Officer. "Thanks to the efforts of our hard-working employees, Spirit is a successful company that can deliver profitable returns while offering the low fares our customers crave."
 
I was going to say that...Cbus was the problem with Skybus. Regardless, the "pay for everything" theory was also part of the problem.

As far as making money goes, Spirit is head and shoulders above VX (who can't make money with a "superior product").
 
Fubijaakr said:
"Outta here" means different things to different folks, apparently.
Click to expand...

You must enjoy bullying. I came back because I got an annoying email that said you responded because you feel you must have the last word. I got another annoying email again today so I am back to say I will put you on my ignore list so I don't get any more annoying emails.

You have been shown to be wrong. Spirit has and continues to make money. They made more than $108 MM in 2009 when most were losing money. They made money in 2010 despite the strike that cost a lot. They are on target to make as much as airlines with more than 2X the number of aircraft in 2011--the announcement is to come this week. Quite simply, they don't care about having market share; rather they care about ensuring that every flight they have makes money. They have a niche market and, people like me who don't like to pay for things I don't need, fall into it. And I travel on them for business, not pleasure typically.
 
The reason Spirit makes money is because they don't pay taxes. Any pricing labeled a "fee" is tax free (cash money). They only pay taxes on the 9$ air fare. Then charge you a fuel fee, seat assignment fee, Internet usage fee, bag fee, etc. All of which is cash money. If the government wants their tax dollars, all they have to do is change the tax laws and Spirit is in deep doo doo. Spirit can charge less for this very reason cause the other carriers pay more taxes.
 
cowboy55 said:
The reason Spirit makes money is because they don't pay taxes. Any pricing labeled a "fee" is tax free (cash money). They only pay taxes on the 9$ air fare. Then charge you a fuel fee, seat assignment fee, Internet usage fee, bag fee, etc. All of which is cash money. If the government wants their tax dollars, all they have to do is change the tax laws and Spirit is in deep doo doo. Spirit can charge less for this very reason cause the other carriers pay more taxes.
Click to expand...


Do you really belive that?
 
Skybus Mislead

Flyer1015 said:
No way. Skybus's model was flawed. One of their biggest drawbacks was their lack of ability to connect through their own hub at CMH! If you had to fly from Burbank to Orlando, you'd have to buy a ticket from Burbank to Columbus, go to arrivals, pick up your bag, and then recheck in again at CMH on Skybus. Not even Ryan air does that! If you can't seamlessly connect passengers on your own airline, then you are flawed. Skybus also had other failures, like offering 10 dollar tickets for a fixed amount of seats on every plane. Might be an okay idea if you have a full boat, but if you only fill 50 seats, and 10 were sold at 10 bucks, then you'll never make money. Spirit is very dynamic, their fares change constantly, just like every other legacy/major airline.
Click to expand...

Skybus also mislead! Many people trying to get to Seattle, landed in Bellingham, sold as "Seattle" only to find out that the cheap flight had $150 cab ride to finish the trip to Seattle. Articles ran nearly monthly in the Seattle newspaper how people were stranded in BLI with little cash to complete their trip to Seattle.
 
HRDiva said:
I don't get any more annoying emails.
Click to expand...

There are a lot of people here who like to talk shiite behind people's backs on the PM system. Better get used to it or go back to the juvenile delinquents on JC.


HRDiva said:
They have a niche market and, people like me who don't like to pay for things I don't need, fall into it. And I travel on them for business, not pleasure typically.
Click to expand...

You don't pay for ANYTHING using hubby's pass privileges. So nice try...
 
Full of LUV said:
Skybus also mislead! Many people trying to get to Seattle, landed in Bellingham, sold as "Seattle" only to find out that the cheap flight had $150 cab ride to finish the trip to Seattle. Articles ran nearly monthly in the Seattle newspaper how people were stranded in BLI with little cash to complete their trip to Seattle.
Click to expand...

Its called bait and switch and in any other business, its illegal.
 
Well, you have to give Spirit credit...they figured out a way to cheat their way to a blacker bottom line.
 
Here is a comparison of fees on a Spirit vs JetBlue flight from Boston to Ft Myers, FL. The ending ticket prices are very close but the fees are very different.

$248 ($329 with fees or just under $300 if bought at airport)
Passenger Facility Fee $18.00
Passenger Usage Fee $33.98 (BS fee to book online but waived if ticket bought at airport)
Segment Fee $15.20 (Why does JetBlue not pay this $3.80 tax per segment?)
September 11th Security Fee $10.00
Unintended Consequences of DOT Regulations $4.00 (WTF is this?)
Fees:
$81.18

$342 ($363 with fees)
Passenger Facility Charges of up to $9.00 each way ($18)
September 11 Security Fees of up to $5.00 each way ($10)
Fees:
$21.60 (I guess the fees were not the maximum listed above)
 

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