CAL DEN and ORD bases???

[skywdriver]

Lots of rumors flying around about 737 bases opening in DEN and ORD and airbuses coming into CAL bases. With certain sections of the transition agreement expiring at the end of the year, only makes sense that the company will do this. My questions are -how would these bases go in regards to seniority? DEN senior I would guess ORD total wildcard. I would think the extra staffing requirements for new bases in addition to more aircraft deliveries and the beginning affects of retirements would require another bid with a decent amount of vacancies. Any thoughts?

 

[Uncle Bort]

New 737 bases could easily be populated by closure of the CLE base and trimming of the larger EWR and IAH bases.

 

[densoo]

New 737 bases could easily be populated by closure of the CLE base and trimming of the larger EWR and IAH bases.

Easily. Some of the scuttle is that CLE stays open, 73s for DEN and ORD come out of IAH, and 320 go into IAH. Theory is that the numbers indicate 73s compete better against SW than 320s.

 

[densoo]

Lots of rumors flying around about 737 bases opening in DEN and ORD and airbuses coming into CAL bases....Any thoughts?

DEN and ORD showed up for a couple of hours on the standing bid screen, used to indicate preferences for a system bid. This happened with LAX in January and there were crews in there by May.

 

[densoo]

My questions are -how would these bases go in regards to seniority?

If LAX is any guide, which it may not be, left seat went fairly senior, right pretty junior. The #1 guy on the seniority list, IAH 777 CA, went to the 73 in LAX. The right seat juniority may have just been the cost of living.

 

[Flopgut]

My gut feeling is CLE will stay open.

 

[davessn763]

If LAX is any guide, which it may not be, left seat went fairly senior, right pretty junior. The #1 guy on the seniority list, IAH 777 CA, went to the 73 in LAX. The right seat juniority may have just been the cost of living.

I disagree. LAX is the senior 737 FO base and more senior than EWR or IAH 756 FO.

 

[densoo]

I disagree. LAX is the senior 737 FO base and more senior than EWR or IAH 756 FO.

I was looking at the top of the list. You may be looking at entire list. The most senior LAX FO is junior to the most senior FO in any other BES, in all but a couple cases by over 1,000 numbers.

 

[ForgedBlade]

My gut feeling is CLE will stay open.

Yep...

 

[eaglesview]

My gut feeling is CLE will stay open.

no chance

 

[Flopgut]

I used to think CLE would get closed any time. Then I got based there. CLE works like a relief valve for EWR. I think it will do the same for ORD.

 

[eaglesview]

Flopgut, You are using some level of common sense which has no place in airline decision making. Management looks at the extra pilots they need on reserve, looks at how much they can outsource to the rj's and closes the base.

 

[Flopgut]

You might be right. But I think they will keep it...

 

[davessn763]

I was looking at the top of the list. You may be looking at entire list. The most senior LAX FO is junior to the most senior FO in any other BES, in all but a couple cases by over 1,000 numbers.

I'm looking at the bottom guys as thats what I feel determines if a base is senior, i.e. if I am a new hire what base can I hold and when. If you are senior you can hold any base, so the top guys don't really matter. I guess it is all just opinion and perspective from where you are at on the list.

Newest system bid bulletin this week says Jan bid is just for restaffing for retirements, but as we know they always say that.

 

[Crucianpilot]

Lots of rumors flying around about 737 bases opening in DEN and ORD and airbuses coming into CAL bases. With certain sections of the transition agreement expiring at the end of the year, only makes sense that the company will do this. My questions are -how would these bases go in regards to seniority? DEN senior I would guess ORD total wildcard. I would think the extra staffing requirements for new bases in addition to more aircraft deliveries and the beginning affects of retirements would require another bid with a decent amount of vacancies. Any thoughts?

The airbuses are going to IAH to fly central and south america because of the containerized cargo capacity. We all know those flights always carry a lot of cargo.

 

[list2002]

And we know that management does whatever they want, and if we even think slowdown we are getting sued. Can't wait to commute to ORD.

 

[eaglesview]

And we know that management does whatever they want, and if we even think slowdown we are getting sued. Can't wait to commute to ORD.

Easy commute. Welcome aboard, We arrive early, real early. Watch them fuel flows.

 

[Jetjockey]

Very full flights IAH-ORD-IAH, lots of CAL, UAL commuters. Not an easy commute by any standards.

 

[1x1]

EWR-ORD commute has become increasingly difficult since Smilton.

 

[ForgedBlade]

Very full flights IAH-ORD-IAH, lots of CAL, UAL commuters. Not an easy commute by any standards.

That's because Smisek and all his henchmen still are "commuting". Then again, when they are all getting an extra $15,000 per month for those brutal living expenses, they could care less.

 

[Jetjockey]

That's because Smisek and all his henchmen still are "commuting". Then again, when they are all getting an extra $15,000 per month for those brutal living expenses, they could care less.

Yeah, picking your seat positive space first class is tiring. I have seen as many as 35-40 positive space. Good luck getting a SA seat.

 

[Ex737Driver]

The airbuses are going to IAH to fly central and south america because of the containerized cargo capacity. We all know those flights always carry a lot of cargo.

They can fly like the 767 does on a through flight but mgmt cannot place a A320 base in IAH until JCBA.

 

[densoo]

They can fly like the 767 does on a through flight but mgmt cannot place a A320 base in IAH until JCBA.

Can they operate them as thru flights? As a kind of virtual base.

 

[list2002]

I hope you're right about JCBA being necessary. I'm hearing otherwise.

 

[catIIIc]

TPA expires at the end of the year that prohibits any new bases other then Lax. After the first of the year airbuses can be based in IAH.

 

[Jetjockey]

They can fly like the 767 does on a through flight but mgmt cannot place a A320 base in IAH until JCBA.

I thought that was the case........not true. Call your rep. When the Transition Agreement expires, so goes domiciles restrictions and a few other sections in that agreement.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Time to be released. Time to strike!

 

[Ex737Driver]

TPA expires at the end of the year that prohibits any new bases other then Lax. After the first of the year airbuses can be based in IAH.

The TPA does modify certain sections of both CBA's as defined in the TPA or as agreed upon by mgmt and ALPA (learned something new). There is no expiration of the TPA unless BOTH mgmt and APLA agree to do so. If both parties agree to do so, that can be accomplished after DEC 31, 2011. The entire TPA can be terminated any time both mgmt and APLA agree to do so. If no changes are requested by either party and/or agreed upon, after DEC 31, 2011 the TPA will continue as is.

Now, do you really see APLA agreeing to give mgmt the ability to modify section 4d about pilot bases?

 

[Ex737Driver]

I thought that was the case........not true. Call your rep. When the Transition Agreement expires, so goes domiciles restrictions and a few other sections in that agreement.

Again the TPA cannot expire without agreement between both mgmt and APLA.

 

[Captain X]

Again the TPA cannot expire without agreement between both mgmt and APLA.

Not entirely correct:

Section 13
Termination of this Transition and Process Agreement
13-A. Partial Termination. Unless the Parties agree otherwise, the Airline Parties may jointly terminate the provisions of Sections 4-D (Domiciles), 7-A (Furlough with regard to United Pilots only), 7-C (Flying Ratios), 7-D (Domicile and Base Protection), and 9 (ALPA Travel), individually or collectively, at any time on or after December 31, 2011, if the parties have not reached a tentative agreement on a JCBA by that date.
​

Section 1​

Definitions used in this Transition and Process Agreement
1-C. Airline Party. Continental, UAL, United.
1-S. Party. An Airline Party or ALPA.