Co-pilot opportunities- Mass

[flighttrainer]

Retired airline Captain-World wide experience. Looking for flying opportunities in Eastern Massachusetts area. Just want to keep involved-No reasonable offer refused.

 

[BigMike]

I don't suppose it would do us under-employed pilots on the way up any good to suggest that you buy a Bonanza and fly for fun on the weekends.
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=138621

 

[emspilot 01]

Retired Pilots....

I don't suppose it would do us under-employed pilots on the way up any good to suggest that you buy a Bonanza and fly for fun on the weekends.
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=138621

There are a lot of pilots out there of all ages looking for jobs right now. Retired pilots might want a job that does not take money from other pilot familys.

 

[filejw]

I don't suppose it would do us under-employed pilots on the way up any good to suggest that you buy a Bonanza and fly for fun on the weekends.
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=138621

You are assuming he doesn't need to make a living too.

 

[emspilot 01]

You are assuming he doesn't need to make a living too.

How do you know it's not a Famebait comment?? From the original poster on this form.

 

[gret]

You are assuming he doesn't need to make a living too.

Doubtful he meant any harm.

He did say..."Just want to keep involved..."

 

[ultrarunner]

Retired airline Captain-World wide experience. Looking for flying opportunities in Eastern Massachusetts area. Just want to keep involved-No reasonable offer refused.

BAS demo pilot based out of BDL? I'd imaging those jobs open up from time to time.

 

[jet2work]

You are assuming he doesn't need to make a living too.

This was probably just flamebait, so I will play along.

I'm assuming that if he retired from the airlines, that he is age 65 at least (otherwise, if he needed to make a living or wanted to stay involved he would not have retired early- make sense?).

If you reach age 65, retire from an airline, and do not have enough money to support yourself along with the generous contribution that you get from me each month (full SSI - which I will never see a penny of), then by all means, go buy a type rating (better yet, see if you can get WIA funds and let the taxpayer pick up the bill), and see if you can't undercut the daily rate of some struggling contract pilot. Or, offer to work for half the pay of some guy trying to support a family. That way, we can keep the vicious circle going.

http://www.xtranormal.com/xtraplayr/12366113/unemployed-airline-pilot

 

[con-pilot]

Civ/Mil: Civ
A/C Flown: A few
Ratings: Comm,CFI,II MEI
Total Time: 4000+

Are you asking for yourself? As the quoted information does not make sense for a,

Retired airline Captain-World wide experience

,if you are asking for yourself.

 

[G100driver]

Flame bait

 

[emspilot 01]

I would have to agree on Flamebait comment....

 

[flighttrainer]

Not flamebait, helping someone out, don't always judge a book by it's cover. Thanks for all the helpful replies.

 

[BuckMurdock1]

Not flamebait, helping someone out, don't always judge a book by it's cover. Thanks for all the helpful replies.

If this is a legitimate post, and you are truly trying to help someone out..you need to listen to what others have already posted and tell your friend to hang it up. Call it a career. They have had their run. Time to step aside and let others try to provide for their family. I pledge to do the same when my time comes, and am saving $ accordingly.
Tell them Fly for fun perhaps..you can get one HECK of a deal on a used airplane in this market. That way they can 'stay involved' in aviation. Seriously, I have all the respect in the world for my elders; the wisdom they possess, etc. Say what you want about the baby boomers (i've heard the term "The Greediest Generation").. my respect endures-it's just the way I was raised. This is why it pained me to see this very "can't let it go" mentality at NJA before I was furloughed. I flew with MANY types that fit your friend's description -as old or older- and I was honestly embarrassed for them. They would forget to check in on almost every frequency handoff, make callouts that may have been SOP like 10yrs prior, but not current, and displayed airmanship that was borderline incompetent (in some cases grossly incompetent). Somehow FSI kept passing them on PCs..not sure why.

Try to help your friend along in the decision to avoid being one of those people and get another hobby and simply enjoy retirement. If your experience profile is accurate, I'd assume you're just trying to make it and provide a living in this industry for yourself like the rest of us.

My $.02

 

[Gulfstream 200]

If this is a legitimate post, and you are truly trying to help someone out..you need to listen to what others have already posted and tell your friend to hang it up. Call it a career. They have had their run. Time to step aside and let others try to provide for their family. I pledge to do the same when my time comes, and am saving $ accordingly.
Tell them Fly for fun perhaps..you can get one HECK of a deal on a used airplane in this market. That way they can 'stay involved' in aviation. Seriously, I have all the respect in the world for my elders; the wisdom they possess, etc. Say what you want about the baby boomers (i've heard the term "The Greediest Generation").. my respect endures-it's just the way I was raised. This is why it pained me to see this very "can't let it go" mentality at NJA before I was furloughed. I flew with MANY types that fit your friend's description -as old or older- and I was honestly embarrassed for them. They would forget to check in on almost every frequency handoff, make callouts that may have been SOP like 10yrs prior, but not current, and displayed airmanship that was borderline incompetent (in some cases grossly incompetent). Somehow FSI kept passing them on PCs..not sure why.

Try to help your friend along in the decision to avoid being one of those people and get another hobby and simply enjoy retirement. If your experience profile is accurate, I'd assume you're just trying to make it and provide a living in this industry for yourself like the rest of us.

My $.02

So YOU decide when someone should stop flying?

Believe me, I surely hope I am not banging around in a corporate jet when I am 66yrs old, but for some it might still be their dream. Not my business.

These guys dont take jobs from anyone. Its a free market. If one is long term unemployed or underemployed there is usually a reason....and its not old guys undercutting them.

We have all flown with worthless people, age does not matter. I for one fly with a 67yr old guy who is retiring soon....and I will have a hard time replacing him. I dont want the out of work lowball guy (they come young and old) I want a highly qualified guy, so I will most likely have to hire someone away from a decent job, and that requires a decent package. I can pretty much guarantee you I wont hire an unemployed guy, unless the timing was just perfect.

I would rather be in the "Greedy" Generation as opposed to the "whiny entitled" Generation.

 

[SansPlane]

So YOU decide when someone should stop flying?

I would rather be in the "Greedy" Generation as opposed to the "whiny entitled" Generation.

Flamebait or not, +1.

 

[gern_blanston]

We have all flown with worthless people, age does not matter.

+1. A loser is a loser is a loser, from 3rd grade to retirement.

 

[jet2work]

^^^
Agreed, but, lets put it to a vote

Q. 65 years old, retired airline pilot who does not have another hobby besides flying when others tell him to?

A. Loser? or Winner?


Or, scenario 2.

Q. 65 year old retired airline pilot that has not saved enough to support himself with the money from his pension / 401K / IRA's/ and SSI or Walmart Greeter Job.

A. Loser? or Winner?


Q. A 65 year old retired airline pilot who would possibly work for less than prevailing wages (hence the no reasonable offer refused quote), at what could otherwise be an entry level job for someone in the earlier stages of his or her career?

A. Loser? or Winner?



Please tally your score and post it here.

Don't get me wrong... This is not about his age. Bob Hoover was a better pilot at 70 than I will ever be.

I equate this to hiring someone who has already won the Powerball Lottery, forgot what bank he deposited the check in, and now wants to someone else to pay for his hobby.
What was his attitude about scope when he was at the airline?? I bet he wasn't thrilled with the idea of some regional pilot "taking his flying." Now he will turn around and do the same thing to some poor contract pilot or entry level corporate pilot.

It's a free country. I get it (and I paid for it). But it is hard for me to muster up a bunch of compassion for this type. I will reserve it for the pilot struggling to get a break, or the guy trying to keep his house from forclosure because his last flight department closed. That's just me.

 

[Kingairrick]

Not flamebait, helping someone out, don't always judge a book by it's cover. Thanks for all the helpful replies.

That interview with his major he's promised you is worth excatly what you're paying for it...
Why don't you help him by explaining what the "no reasonable offer refused" sounds like to others. In a word, "unprofessional."

 

[gern_blanston]

...
Why don't you help him by explaining what the "no reasonable offer refused" sounds like to others. In a word, "unprofessional."

+1 +1 +1

 

[ksu_aviator]

I just can't believe how far this country fell in such a short time. What a bunch of cry babies. If he wants to work for cheap, he can work for cheap. It isn't up to you to determine who can make what and when.

 

[jet2work]

I guess that is exactly the kind of response I would expect from a former Mesaba pilot, who is accustomed to PFT.

You are now a chief pilot? Do you treat your people any better than you were treated?

By all means, see if this retired airline Captain with international experience wants to come fly a King Air with you for free. He might even still have travel privileges, so you wouldn't have to buy him a ticket. The two of you could share a room and further keep costs down for the owner. That is sure to keep you in their good graces

Professionals ( like Dr.s and attorneys) usually do pro-Bono work for poor people. Why is it you think pilots should do it for the wealthy?

At least maybe you could sell him some insurance.

 

[ksu_aviator]

I guess that is exactly the kind of response I would expect from a former Mesaba pilot, who is accustomed to PFT.

You are now a chief pilot? Do you treat your people any better than you were treated?

By all means, see if this retired airline Captain with international experience wants to come fly a King Air with you for free. He might even still have travel privileges, so you wouldn't have to buy him a ticket. The two of you could share a room and further keep costs down for the owner. That is sure to keep you in their good graces

Professionals ( like Dr.s and attorneys) usually do pro-Bono work for poor people. Why is it you think pilots should do it for the wealthy?

At least maybe you could sell him some insurance.

I'm glad you had something to contribute to the conversation. Your personal attacks are much appreciated. They really helped us to discuss the topic at hand.

Granted, I was talking about personal freedom with undertones of free market capitalism while you were addressing your misconceptions about me. But I'm sure where I work and what I do is more important to you then defending your piss poor position that you should have the right to determine what type of job another pilot takes.

 

[G100driver]

As long as we are going talk about American ideals, I can definately express my opinion as well. If I want to say the original poster is under cutting the market and is hurting us trying to feed our families then that is fine too.

 

[jet2work]

I'm glad you had something to contribute to the conversation. Your personal attacks are much appreciated. They really helped us to discuss the topic at hand.

Granted, I was talking about personal freedom with undertones of free market capitalism while you were addressing your misconceptions about me. But I'm sure where I work and what I do is more important to you then defending your piss poor position that you should have the right to determine what type of job another pilot takes.

Pot, meet Kettle.

You are the one that came on here calling everyone who disagrees with you a bunch of cry babies. You went so far as to state you cannot believe how far this country has fallen. Really?

It's called free speech. It goes hand in hand with free markets. I don't recall anyone here proposing a law to ban this guy from taking an entry level job.

I just want everyone to consider the source when they read your post. Maybe instead of slugging it out in the trenches you used mom and dads money to buy yourself an FO job at Mesaba? Is that why this subject touches a nerve with you? Didn't you used to fly contract? I bet you were thrilled when a customer told you that they could get some retired military or airline guy to do it cheaper, and asked you to lower your daily rate.

Once again, it's a free country ( you can thank me and my friends for that on Nov 11 th).

 

[ksu_aviator]

Pot, meet Kettle.

You are the one that came on here calling everyone who disagrees with you a bunch of cry babies. You went so far as to state you cannot believe how far this country has fallen. Really?

It's called free speech. It goes hand in hand with free markets. I don't recall anyone here proposing a law to ban this guy from taking an entry level job.

They have every right to say what they want, but that doesn't mean they aren't cry babies. In a free market you have three options; do it cheaper, do it better or go home. Don't complain if someone does it better and cheaper. That makes you a cry baby.

As for banning the guy from working, whether there is a push for a law or not, there is clearly an intent to bully this guy out of a job. You cannot deny that.

I just want everyone to consider the source when they read your post. Maybe instead of slugging it out in the trenches you used mom and dads money to buy yourself an FO job at Mesaba? Is that why this subject touches a nerve with you?

I don't know what they do. I know I never paid for training. Not once.

Didn't you used to fly contract? I bet you were thrilled when a customer told you that they could get some retired military or airline guy to do it cheaper, and asked you to lower your daily rate.

I never flew contract. You have no idea who I am do you? No, you came on here and made a bunch of accusations that are completely baseless in hopes of supporting an indefensible position. Not once have you backed the notion that the people on this board should have the right to bully someone out of a job. You've chosen to attack me because I pointed out the absurdness of the argument.

Once again, it's a free country ( you can thank me and my friends for that on Nov 11 th).

Ooohh you are a veteran. Well, thank you for your service, but that doesn't give you the right to bully people into doing what you want.

 

[jet2work]

I don't know what they do. I know I never paid for training. Not once.

Really? you don't list Mil in your profile?

I never flew contract. You have no idea who I am do you? No, you came on here and made a bunch of accusations that are completely baseless in hopes of supporting an indefensible position. Not once have you backed the notion that the people on this board should have the right to bully someone out of a job. You've chosen to attack me because I pointed out the absurdness of the argument.

Well my friend, back on 10-15 of this year, you shared this little gem with the group. Here is a quote from your post:

When I was working full-time and flying contract work, almost all of my contract work came from word of mouth. The best thing you can do is socialize with people that have that type of aircraft. The second best thing you can do is to make a few unsolicited phone calls. Most likely they'll say no. In fact, I can guarantee they'll say no. What will impress them is how you handle the rejection. I would always respond with "I knew it was a long shot, but would you mind if I send you my resume (or card, whichever you have) just in case something comes up?"

Most people love to get a salesman off the phone and they will do about anything to get rid of you. By getting permission to send them a resume they got rid of you but said yes at the same time. In the end, they will probably call you for a trip. 90% of the time getting a job, especially a temp. job, is not about being the most qualified it is about being the easiest to hire.

So either you were LYING then, or you are LYING now. In addition to possibly being a pathological liar, you are also a hypocrite for coming on this post and whining about other people whining.

I don't think anyone here was trying to bully a retired airline pilot. Myself, I was trying to point out to him that if your only competitive advantage is your willingness to work cheaper, please don't come in and screw up my profession. Just like an airline pilot would not like it when a "scab" comes in and offers to take their job while they are striking for better pay, work rules and living conditions.

I really don't have to worry about this guy taking my job, as ICAO sets the age limit for PIC at most of my destinations, and this guy's expiration date was 5 years ago. I am simply pointing out that there is some kid out there trying to get a break, so that one day, he or she might get a job flying for a major airline or Fortune 100 company. In the meantime, that entry level job would put food on the table, gas in the tank and hours in the logbook. Sorry I'm such an inconsiderate jack ass for not putting the interests of a retired airline pilot first

Maybe you wouldn't have to sell insurance on the side to make a living, if you demanded a decent wage, in return for your skills and experience? I'm sorry that this has devolved into a peeing contest between the two of us, but I think your loyalties to some guy who probably makes more in retirement than you make flying, is misplaced. As a taxpayer, footing the bill for his SSI and Medicare, the thought of him undercutting someone else is a little irritating (read the code - no reasonable offer refused - just want to stay involved).

 

[G100driver]

best spank I have seen in while .. good research jet2work.

 

[gern_blanston]

best spank I have seen in while .. good research jet2work.

I'm gonna' have to agree with G100 on this one; dayum, that was a good ol'-fashioned ass-whoopin'!

 

[ksu_aviator]

Really? you don't list Mil in your profile?

OMG...really? I guess because I have bad eye sight I should never have been a pilot? So now, not only can people not work for the wages they want to work for, but they can't join the profession unless they follow the same path you did. Lame.

Well my friend, back on 10-15 ... post:

LOL...the contract work I did was 3 flights a year for another company. I was never a full-time contract pilot. Nice try though.

So either you ... whining.

I'm sorry I don't post like a lawyer. Guess I should write a long disclaimer at the end of this post.

I don't .... conditions.

You want to talk about hypocrisy. It was almost in the same sentence.

I really don't have to worry about this guy taking my job, ... a retired airline pilot first

There you go again, determining who should work and when.

Maybe you wouldn't ... - just want to stay involved).

I guess the word reasonable avoided you?

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[Gulfstream 200]

Its best not to engage in the fine art of internet message board bickering unless you are SOMEWHAT skilled at it.