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JB pilots just voted to give away......

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What he is refering to is that the JB pilot group just voted yes to an amendment to our PEA that states exactly what flying the company can have other carriers do. It is an extensive list so I won't state it all, but basically says that the company can have 10% of our ASM's flown by another carrier that has aircraft of 50 seats or less. (this is a very basic explanation, I am sure someone will be more specific). There were a lot of other issues that these documents stated, but this is the issue in question on this post. Prior to these documents the company could have done what ever they wanted and the pilot group had no recourse. As usual these are a very heavily debated set of issues that everyone takes very personal. So I am not saying if voteing these documents in was right or wrong. Just explaining in english a little better. Hope this helps.
 
The paranoid (and rightfully so) bunch will tell you that the company is going to start another company to wipsaw against the current JB pilot group.
The more nuetral bunch will tell you that the reasoning for this is that it will allow us to have another company run some type of turbo-prop feed in the islands to fill out planes going to points in the states.
Honestly know one knows and we are all waiting to see what happens to the story of JB.
 
To be clear the Jetblue pilot group voted to allow jetblue to start and operate and airline with 50 seat or less and buy, start and operate and airline with up 10% ASM regardless of the size of the aircraft. This give jetblue incredible flexibility to operate another carrier without integrating seniority list. The PEA amendment also states jetblue does not have to pay the alter-ego carrier the same rates of pay/benefits as current jetblue pilots.
 
That's a slippery slope to start down, guys.
 
How bad can it be? Worked out great for United, Delta, USAirways, etc.....
 
More important than what is or is not in the agreement is that the jetblue pilots gave up the right to a "group grievance". If the company violates the agreement they sign in any area - scope, scheduling, pay, etc- in a way that affects dozens or hundreds of pilots, the pilots can only fight it individually by hiring their own lawyer. The company has already shown on another issue that even when dozens were affected on a previous issue, they only paid the ones that stuck with the case to the end with their own lawyer. Though the case was clear, they did not pay those who could not afford their own lawyer or chose not to hire one.

In the original presentation of the "five documents", there were many questions on this issue of joinder, so the company added the statement that joinder would be allowed ....IF THE COMPANY SAYS SO...on an individual basis.
 
Management will ALWAYS have the upper hand, guys. Dont kid yourself. It's all about giving you the perception of control. Thye supply the rope... you hang yourself.
 
What did the pilots get in return? More blue potato chips?


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Mamma said:
A big hug from Barger and Dean!
Click to expand...

So no give and take? All they get is a hug? Come on now! How about an Australian kiss?


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Lake Alice said:
To be clear the Jetblue pilot group voted to allow jetblue to start and operate and airline with 50 seat or less and buy, start and operate and airline with up 10% ASM regardless of the size of the aircraft. This give jetblue incredible flexibility to operate another carrier without integrating seniority list. The PEA amendment also states jetblue does not have to pay the alter-ego carrier the same rates of pay/benefits as current jetblue pilots.
Click to expand...

Can you please explain to everyone on flightinfo what was stopping JB from doing these things last week before this vote?
 
Let me get this straight...It basically sounds like JB pilots just gave up some scope?? Although they could have done it anyway, the vote reinforces it even more?


Hmmm.. certainly makes a tough decision tougher if ever interviewed? Damn, I was really hoping JB would be a solid place for a while..
 
Well, I already wear a blue shirt as the captain of the airplane,might as well give away flying and joinder. Look forward to pullin gear for one of u guys later in life !
 
I think that the jblu puzzle palace knows that in time a union will come....the more of these things that they are free to do anyway that the jblu pilots "vote on" and say yes to the easier it will be for the puzzle palace to feed them a $h1t sandwich during their contract negotiations.....best approach for the blu crew.....dont even acknowledge the existance of a vote.........abstain........
 
Beantown said:
Can you please explain to everyone on flightinfo what was stopping JB from doing these things last week before this vote?
Click to expand...

Absolutely nothing.

The difference now is the Jetblue pilot group agreed to this in writting while also signing away the ability to collectively fight a greivance.
 
50 Seaters..

Looking around the industry... letting someone fly 50 seaters or less is a minimal threat. 50 seaters and smaller are Dead on Arrival with current and probably higher fuel prices.

And it would take a LOT of aircraft to make 10% of the ASMs with 50 seaters. So all you guys harping about that should take a deep breath.

Now not allowing a "collective" arbitration... That stinks but what did you expect with the "individual employment agreements we have?" We NEED to watch out for US/European ATP harmonization, cabotage, foreign ownership, predatory pricing with competitors, Airline Alliance Monopolies, FAA funding, more crazy "Passenger Rights Laws", criminalization of accident investigations and the elephant in the closet, Airline Industry Carbon Taxes.

Face it... this industry stinks. Should have been a hedge fund manager.
 
8vATE said:
We NEED to watch out for US/European ATP harmonization, cabotage, foreign ownership, predatory pricing with competitors, Airline Alliance Monopolies, FAA funding, more crazy "Passenger Rights Laws", criminalization of accident investigations and the elephant in the closet, Airline Industry Carbon Taxes.
Click to expand...

What can jBlu pilots do about any of that?
 
8vATE said:
Looking around the industry... letting someone fly 50 seaters or less is a minimal threat. 50 seaters and smaller are Dead on Arrival with current and probably higher fuel prices.

And it would take a LOT of aircraft to make 10% of the ASMs with 50 seaters. So all you guys harping about that should take a deep breath.

Now not allowing a "collective" arbitration... That stinks but what did you expect with the "individual employment agreements we have?" We NEED to watch out for US/European ATP harmonization, cabotage, foreign ownership, predatory pricing with competitors, Airline Alliance Monopolies, FAA funding, more crazy "Passenger Rights Laws", criminalization of accident investigations and the elephant in the closet, Airline Industry Carbon Taxes.

Face it... this industry stinks. Should have been a hedge fund manager.
Click to expand...

Face value, what you say is true. Although this is more a foot in the door or the slippery slope. It sets precedence and future negotiations commence from the new bar.
 
Beantown said:
Can you please explain to everyone on flightinfo what was stopping JB from doing these things last week before this vote?
Click to expand...

Nothing did, but here is a simplistic analogy: Nothing prevents someone from trying to break into my house, this however has given the thief, in writing,the right to steal 10% of my stuff.

Much like I have two dogs and a alarm system, I would very much like legally enforceable scope that assures the flying stays in-house.
 
8vATE said:
Looking around the industry... letting someone fly 50 seaters or less is a minimal threat. 50 seaters and smaller are Dead on Arrival with current and probably higher fuel prices.

And it would take a LOT of aircraft to make 10% of the ASMs with 50 seaters. So all you guys harping about that should take a deep breath.
Click to expand...

We are harping because numbnuts at legacies bought the same speech years ago. "The company can only get XXX number of those barbie jets." Look how well that worked out. Crack open the barn door and the horse bolts out.
 
Its not simply 50 seats. Its 50 seats OR any size aircraft up to 10% AMS's. Most Jetblue pilots do not know this or don't understand the verbiage. This means any aircraft. The joinder issue is just as big. Legacy carriers signed scope clauses which the parent companies ultimately violated. The unions then sued the companies and won. The Jetblue pilots will be forced to fight their scope clause independently. Has anyone fought an individual grievance against a corporation lately? It is extremely expensive and due to on staff legal teams the issue may be drug out for an eternity. Meanwhile another carrier is taking our jobs and flying as we INDIVIDUALLY fight a legal battle.
 

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