AAI/SWA solution

[GuppyWN]

How would a SWA guy feel if us AAI guys get relative seniority but we keep our payscale and benefits? You guys keep throwing around how much money we will make but what if this was the case. We get to keep our seniority and there is no huge windfall that you all keep talking about.

I'm not trying to stir the pot or anything, just wanted to get some feedback. Seems like SWA guys only talk about how much money we will make and we talk about our seniority.

So how bout we keep our seniority and we don't get a pay raise?

Keep it nice!

Problem is your airline is reducing it's schedule. How do we handle the reduction in block hours from your side? How do we handle WN's growing presence in ATL?

The biggest problem of all is Gary wants the synergies that he paid for when he bought you. You have to SAVE him money, not just not cost him money.

Gup

 

[Just thinking]

"You're tired of hearing the money argument? SL9 would have paid you more money for less work (time). Commuting or not, if you're happy with the money you're making now, you would have been home more days per month/year/career.".................

SL9 did not provide that for the AT folks. We were stuck for up to 30 months AFTER SOC with our same contract. NO 6 tfp each day. Reserve would only pay a 75-78 hour guarantee. Commute in for a 5 day stretch and get used for two resulting in 8 hours towards guarantee. Time away from home with no compensation. No improvement in work rules. Flipping of circadium rythms.... bid ams and then get switched to a CDO. Loss of retirement for 3 months. Pay did not become effective until 1 April. Promise of reserve for 10+ years. These are just some of the glaring issues with SL9.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ok- time to call a spade a spade.

Ty- you talk of your great schedule and all the money you make and what a great senority you have and the easy commute you have.

When is the last time you actually flew a jet?

What difference does it make? I see the line awards each month, I know what my line would look like. Do I suddenly not get an opinion?

Why don't you address the point I was making- that the QoL of most AAI pilots would be greatly reduced under the terms of the AIP. That is why the MEC voted not to send it out. Hopefully, they can come up with something that is mutually acceptable, but if not, on to Mediation, and, if necessary, Arbitration.

 

[GoodTimes]

If it wasn't perfect for your side, I sincerely think it was the best deal that SWA was prepared to offer. It was far from perfect for our side, as well.

Some pain on the front side buys you a lucrative and secure career with the most successful airline in the history of the business.

Oh well. Back to square uno amigos.

 

[Capn Butthead]

With all due respect Ty....answer the question. Why did you upgrade then? If it's all about quality of life why didn't you stay an fo? That's where I have my doubts about this...it's about qol...bs! We all want the money! ALL of us! I want my $300,000 a year to play golf, buy a damn good sports car and live like a college kid drinking beer with my 21 year old girlfriend! but I guess my 9 years here isn't good enough for that...let's give it to someone with 6 years seniority....I say again it's not about qol it's about money...that's why I'm willing to commute from mco to oak to upgrade. Y'all have a good night. I'm going back to my beer wearing my red sox hat in new york...goodnight!

 

[GoodTimes]

You dont get it.

At the bottom of the list, we would be double-commuting to a reserve line. No flexibility.

I do get it, Ty. We've all got to give up something. It's the nature of the beast.

 

[Ty Webb]

With all due respect Ty....answer the question. Why did you upgrade then? If it's all about quality of life why didn't you stay an fo?

I don't answer every question, because some of them just aren't worth answering.

If you REALLY must know, I upgraded on the 737 when it was a new airplane in the fleet, and it was going junior. I timed it right, and it worked out very well. I was holding a line again within a matter of months. No big loss of QoL there. Not like being on reserve for ten years under the SIA.

If that window of opportunity hadn't happened, I would have stayed in the right seat until I could hold a line. That was pretty common, back when upgrades were plentiful.

 

[dragontamer]

Integration of Airtran = Cultural poison. First group of "entitled" pilots ever to SWA.

Focus needs to be on running separate ops until....I hope that is where this is heading.

 

[SLUF4]

As an outsider I was just wondering how the other groups are doing integrating (FA's, Reservations, etc...)

 

[Capn Butthead]

Once again...with no disrespect...you won't answer it because it dis-proves your point. If qol was that important you would've waited...apparently Ms Webb makes good money (good for you...maybe I should quit dating 21 year olds ) you upgraded for money...pure and simple...just as I want to! Now back to drinking and worrying about wearing a red sox in NYC...

 

[puddlejumper101]

As an outsider I was just wondering how the other groups are doing integrating (FA's, Reservations, etc...)

They are in diapers compared to our negotiations. I think Gary and SWA wanted the pilots done first and then everyone else.

 

[SLUF4]

that's true

 

[puddlejumper101]

everyone keeps talking about $$$ vs. QOL. I honestly think you can have both here. It also depends on individual priorities and choices. I think living in domicile gives me both. I realize not everyone can and wants to do that but my point is in almost 5 years at SWA I have both. Flexibility is a huge part of QOL, and we do have tons of it, even junior people.

The other thing I can't get over is all of these ATN captains talking about bad QOL...welll then go to the right seat. You won't take a big hit with $$$ (if at all), and have awesome QOL. Anyone not on reserve (and we don't have many on reserve compared to other carriers) has a shot at good QOL. Even reserve here isn't bad. That whole argument about how ATN pilots will have bad QOL has no merit. Using your current scheduling practices yes, using ours, not really.

 

[Ty Webb]

Once again...with no disrespect...you won't answer it because it dis-proves your point. If qol was that important you would've waited...apparently Ms Webb makes good money (good for you...maybe I should quit dating 21 year olds ) you upgraded for money...pure and simple...just as I want to! Now back to drinking and worrying about wearing a red sox in NYC...

I did answer your question. I upgraded at a time where my QoL was barely impacted. . . . . I was a line-holder within a few months.

Sorry it's not the answer you were looking for.

 

[puddlejumper101]

before SL-9 I used to feel bad for ATN guys dealing with Forano and his MGMNT team, but after seeing this SL-9 collapse and the way the ATN ALPA MEC has behaved, I am starting to think Forano and MGMNT might not have been as bad as previously thought. At one point MGMNT might have tried, but your union guys probably gave MGMNT the finger enough where they eventually said F$%^ the pilots.

Why was ATN MGMNT so bad to their people??? Was it because that was their style, or was it that they got tired of dealing with the militant types over there? Things that make you go HMMMM..................

 

[Ty Webb]

Now we're "militant pilots" . . . . . OK, enough stupidity for one night.

 

[400ADude]

Tyrone,

What would you rather be:

1. A 717 Capt at Delta in the entire DAL system ATL, DTW etc.. ?

or

2. SWA 737 Capt in ATL fenced?

 

[Capn Butthead]

Ty you did answer my question. You left a senior fo position (with weekends off to watch your kids and enjoy your wife's money) to sit reserve for a "small amount of time" to go to being a bottom line holder...which means working weekends and a crappy schedule for quite a while...you did it for the money...As I am wanting to do. You didn't have a great schedule for quite a while after reserve...you can't deny that. You might now and good for you. But if you said you timed your upgrade to minimize your time on reserve you still had a crappy schedule for quite a bit...remember most of us work in the airlines...so we know how schedules work. So you did answer my question the way I wanted you to..you upgraded for money at a loss of qol...I'm not blasting you because I'm willing to do the same. But we all want money so we can keep the wife and/or girlfriend happy (pun intended )

 

[On Your Six]

I do get it, Ty. We've all got to give up something. It's the nature of the beast.

No, that's not right. The pay should have already been agreed upon, without SWAPA pressure, and then the list should have been decided by a neutral. That was the exact pattern of the ONLY successful integration so far, but instead it got ugly. Could it lead to a USair 2? The bottom 60% thrown into the bottom 20%? That's just crazy.


Godspeed!


OYS

 

[puddlejumper101]

Now we're "militant pilots" . . . . . OK, enough stupidity for one night.

I didn't say all of you...but if what your FAB-7 did was not militant then I don't know what is. Keeping the SL-9 and it's details to themselves and not letting the rank and file vote for themselves is as militant as you can possibly get. Just out of respect for your NC, send it to a vote. Shoot you can even not recommend it and still send it for a vote.

Telling Gary that you won't allow postponing arbitration for 6 months is as militant as you can get. SWA MGMNT wants to settle this without arbitration and ALPA isn't letting him, how is that not militant? Knowing that an agreement outside of arbitration will do tons for this "culture", especially since we might have to put up with eachother later...and not allowing that...that's militant. So in the end SWA MGMNT might get fed up and become ATN MGMNT all over again...difference is now there are 6000 pilots that are not on your side. Forano did not have that luxury.