AAI/SWA solution

[easydoesit]

How would a SWA guy feel if us AAI guys get relative seniority but we keep our payscale and benefits? You guys keep throwing around how much money we will make but what if this was the case. We get to keep our seniority and there is no huge windfall that you all keep talking about.

I'm not trying to stir the pot or anything, just wanted to get some feedback. Seems like SWA guys only talk about how much money we will make and we talk about our seniority.

So how bout we keep our seniority and we don't get a pay raise?

Keep it nice!

 

[redflyer65]

I understand where you are headed, but it's a can of worms as well.

For how long? Plus, I'd say most of the AAI pilots wouldn't want that. Just my thoughts..

RF

 

[SWA/FO]

money we will make and we talk about our seniority.

Money will help you pay mortgage, college and retirement. Seniority will not help you with mortgage, college and retirement.

Money is forever and seniority is temporary.

 

[texman]

How would a SWA guy feel if us AAI guys get relative seniority but we keep our payscale and benefits? You guys keep throwing around how much money we will make but what if this was the case. We get to keep our seniority and there is no huge windfall that you all keep talking about.

I'm not trying to stir the pot or anything, just wanted to get some feedback. Seems like SWA guys only talk about how much money we will make and we talk about our seniority.

So how bout we keep our seniority and we don't get a pay raise?

Keep it nice!

Nice one, how about you give us your seniority and you get job security.LOL!
We have the money, but what else do we want mmmmmmmm?LOL!
Your pay scale and benefits will only help SWA not the pilots. Give and take my friend.

 

[texman]

Easy,

Here is one for ya! How about we do the SLI based off pay. Who made the most goes on top.LOL! Not trying to stir the pot but seriously?

 

[charlie2]

Is one of the posters points that their current pay is better than none? If they accept the last proposal and there is another down turn in the industry, and there will be, then only former AAI will get furloughed so the SWA pay rates are pretty meaningless when you are furloughed.

 

[GoodTimes]

You said "relative seniority" and "not trying to stir the pot" in the same post. Then you finish it off with "keep it nice"?

Seriously, bro!

 

[easydoesit]

GoodTimes, what do you mean? Honestly, I don't get your post.

A fair SLI. That's what I meant.

 

[Ty Webb]

I, too, get tired of hearing about the money. Money doesn't buy time at home. When you're on reserve for a decade, the money doesn't give you your life back.

When I flew corporate jets, I flew plenty of people who were worth tens or hundreds of millions. I also saw a lot of screwed up kids . . . . Kids who needed their Dad to be home more, instead of out chasing the almighty dollar.

 

[737lj]

I would say no. I think all 8000 of us need to be on the same CBA with the same payscale. This protects ALL pilots from a potential whipsaw. I type this, but I don't think SWA would attempt that. It's best to cover your a$$ just in case.

But that is selfish for me to only think about the pilots. In order to protect the hard work of all of the Southwest Airlines employees that have kept this airline in business, we all have to think about the culture of the entire Southwest Airlines family. The only way to protect, promote, and preserve this culture is to understand it the way we do from the inside. The only way to do that is to come through the front door like everyone else. Show up at the G.O. meeting all the requirements to be considered for employment, interview, wait what seems like years for the results, wait even longer for a start date, then show up with an attitude of gratitude that you were selected.

This is the only way the culture continues.

Realistic? Probably not, but that IS the only way AAI will ever appreciate my family.

 

[GoodTimes]

Easy,

Relative is a non-starter, regardless of pay.

 

[General Lee]

Money will help you pay mortgage, college and retirement. Seniority will not help you with mortgage, college and retirement.

Money is forever and seniority is temporary.

PURE BS. Seniority is forever. As long as your company stays flying, the guy behind you in seniority will stay there. Do you think SWA will be around in 10 years? Do you like weekends off? What about holidays? Do you want to watch your kids grow up and play sports? Who gets to upgrade first? Would you want to be near the bottom if planes need to be parked? All very important. And, the money will eventually be there.

SWA/FO is trying to pull a fast one, again. Come on now! There won't be a B-scale forever---the culture couldn't take it. SWAPA doesn't own the culture, SWA does. Get over yourselves.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Easy,

Relative is a non-starter, regardless of pay.

If it goes to arbitration, you won't be telling the judges what can and can't happen. Get used to it.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I would say no. I think all 8000 of us need to be on the same CBA with the same payscale. This protects ALL pilots from a potential whipsaw. I type this, but I don't think SWA would attempt that. It's best to cover your a$$ just in case.

But that is selfish for me to only think about the pilots. In order to protect the hard work of all of the Southwest Airlines employees that have kept this airline in business, we all have to think about the culture of the entire Southwest Airlines family. The only way to protect, promote, and preserve this culture is to understand it the way we do from the inside. The only way to do that is to come through the front door like everyone else. Show up at the G.O. meeting all the requirements to be considered for employment, interview, wait what seems like years for the results, wait even longer for a start date, then show up with an attitude of gratitude that you were selected.

This is the only way the culture continues.

Realistic? Probably not, but that IS the only way AAI will ever appreciate my family.

Your Dad just married someone else. Time for you to grow up. If this goes to arbitration, a fair award will happen because someone on the outside with no strings attached will look over the whole plan and decide what is fair. Just because many on here have an "over-inflated" view of themselves doesn't make it right to slam your future step-brothers and step-sisters. You all are just along for the ride, not incharge.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[charlie2]

PURE BS. Seniority is forever.


I'm reducing you in rank to Pvt. Lee for that remark.

 

[General Lee]

PURE BS. Seniority is forever.


I'm reducing you in rank to Pvt. Lee for that remark.

The truth hurts, doesn't it? I am now a 5 star General. As long as your airline is flying, the guy with the number behind you can't jump in front of you. Sad but true. That is seniority.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[charlie2]

Your Dad just married someone else. Time for you to grow up. If this goes to arbitration, a fair award will happen because someone on the outside with no strings attached will look over the whole plan and decide what is fair. Just because many on here have an "over-inflated" view of themselves doesn't make it right to slam your future step-brothers and step-sisters. You all are just along for the ride, not incharge.



Bye Bye---General Lee

I agree with every word Sir!

 

[General Lee]

I agree with every word Sir!

Good. At ease. Anyway, the SWA guys must really believe in Seniority, since they are fighting very hard to keep it, and the money. They have the money right now, why don't they just give up and enjoy all of that money?


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[charlie2]

Good. At ease. Anyway, the SWA guys must really believe in Seniority, since they are fighting very hard to keep it, and the money. They have the money right now, why don't they just give up and enjoy all of that money?


Bye Bye---General Lee

Maybe you forgot I'm Us Airways East.

 

[General Lee]

Maybe you forgot I'm Us Airways East.

Then you know the meaning of disfunctional.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Cruncher]

Ty,

Money doesn't buy time at home.

When you make more per unit of time away from home (both in productivity and rate), you are then able to spend more time at home. So your choice is, spend the same amount of time away from home now, and receive a nice 30 - 40% pay bump. Or you can, spend A LOT more time at home, and be able to maintain the same lifestyle you currently enjoy.

It's funny, the posts never change. Same thing over and over again. The SWA pilots go to work to earn a living, pay their bills, send their kids to college, buy shoes to keep mama happy.

The ATN pilots go to work to exercise seniority.

Got it.

 

[Freight Dog]

When someone is using pay scales and money to justify anything in this business, I'll point to UAL/Delta/USAirways pay scales on September 10, 2001 and then point them to pay scales on August 31, 2011, and invite them to enjoy annual pay snapshots every year since then.

No dog in this fight though...

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty,



When you make more per unit of time away from home (both in productivity and rate), you are then able to spend more time at home. .

Cruncher, spare me the education about how money works. I'm pretty certain that Mrs Webb and I made more last year that Mr. and Mrs. Cruncher. :laugh:

Dropping trips while on reserve is a rarity, according to your reserve pilots. I can re-post dozens of posts where SWA pilots are complaining about not being able to drop trips on reserve . . . how no one wants their scraps, except during the leanest months, etc.

 

[GoodTimes]

Ty,

I've got to disagree with your "money doesn't buy time at home" comment. Hypothetically, if you're working 20 days to make 100k at one job, then start working 15 days to make the same 100k, seems to me you just bought yourself 5 days at home. That's provided you're happy with the 100k.

Time is money and we, being paid by the hour/trip, should know that better than most. We spend our days trading one for the other.

You're tired of hearing the money argument? SL9 would have paid you more money for less work (time). Commuting or not, if you're happy with the money you're making now, you would have been home more days per month/year/career.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty,

I've got to disagree with your "money doesn't buy time at home" comment. Hypothetically, if you're working 20 days to make 100k at one job, then start working 15 days to make the same 100k, seems to me you just bought yourself 5 days at home. That's provided you're happy with the 100k.

Your example doesn't apply to our situation. I'm already getting good schedules, decent pay, and an easy commute.

If I lose 4 years seniority, I will be a reserve pilot with a two-leg commute. That's not more days off, and it's not much more money.

Why do you think most of us with decent seniority have stayed here?

Oh, I know, because with my degree, 20 year perfect work history and 4,000 hrs 737 PIC time, I just wasn't "competitive".

 

[scoreboardII]

When someone is using pay scales and money to justify anything in this business, I'll point to UAL/Delta/USAirways pay scales on September 10, 2001 and then point them to pay scales on August 31, 2011, and invite them to enjoy annual pay snapshots every year since then.

No dog in this fight though...

and I'll point you to the SWA payscale both pre and post 911, no change, except SWA now pays even more. Your argument is baseless, we are not talking UAL or DAL, we are talking SWA, the airline which pays it's bills net 30, not net bankruptcy.

 

[Sacha]

PURE BS. Seniority is forever.


I'm reducing you in rank to Pvt. Lee for that remark.

Hang on, pvt. Lee is in the process of switching over to On Your Six.

 

[Dude]

Ty,

You have an Aviation Management degree? Well then, now we're getting somewhere. That right there will get you the brass ring! Since I don't have one, you can have my seniority. After all, I hardly deserve it.

It's all fun and games until someone with an aviation degree shows up.

 

[GoodTimes]

Ty,

I hear you. Unfortunately, "your situation" no longer exists. I respect your position, but still contend that, for a given amount of income, you'll have had more time at home under SL9.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty,

I hear you. Unfortunately, "your situation" no longer exists. I respect your position, but still contend that, for a given amount of income, you'll have had more time at home under SL9.

SL9 applied to your Pilot Group, and would have given you more time at home.

The LOA to our Contract, which applied to us, would have achieved the opposite effect.


TW