Would ASA do better in this industry if they focussed on making the pilots happy?

[FishandFly]

Over the years I have had a consistent feeling that ASA does not care about the pilot groups' level of contentment. I don't believe they even view the pilot group as an asset.. Only an expense that must perform at 100% no matter how they are treated.

Our leadership must think that we do not vary in our efficiency and performance when we get frustrated with them.

Does anyone else think this is true? Doesn't it make sense that they should do everything in their power to keep us running at 100%?

 

[Uncle Bunkle]

They don't care. They just want cheaper costs to fatten their bonus.

 

[ex j-41]

After you beat a dog for years the memories will remain. They have altered the personalities of their people. It will take a's many years to undo the wrong.

 

[centralpilot]

Over the years I have had a consistent feeling that ASA does not care about the pilot groups' level of contentment. I don't believe they even view the pilot group as an asset.. Only an expense that must perform at 100% no matter how they are treated.

This is a fact, not a feeling.

 

[acpilot]

Does "contentment" mean "more money?"

 

[FishandFly]

To me it means other stuff more than money. How many stories do we have in our memories where people were simply screwed by the company even though the screw-job had nothing to do with saving the company money/being better staffed/etc.

I think we would all accept the pay we negotiate, and that would be static for the duration of a contract right? But why go out of your way as a company to stick it to your employees?

I'm not just complaining about a single time it has happened to me or others, but rather that our company does it on a continual basis. It's almost like every employee that deals with assisting / controlling the pilot group has a manager who has specifically told them that they are not to do anything other than what the contract requires them to do when dealing with us.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

http://www.amazon.com/Southwest-Air...1843/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311721089&sr=8-1

When the bottom line is the most important metric for the company, this is what you get. Unfortunately for us as employees, our happiness, and the benefits that we provide, can't be measured easily in dollars and cents.

Remember when we as a group collectively busted our asses to make this airline run great. Our D-0 and A-14 numbers were great. Now look at our numbers. We're back to the bottom of the list again. We were awarded with nice bonus checks, now we collect checks that seem to be barely worth the paper they are written on. Seems we are in a vicious cycle here...the beatings will continue until morale improves.

I hope to someday see our airline have a good relationship with management again.

 

[Clutch]

You're only an employee number.. That's how it goes.

 

[Data]

Any productivity gains coming from happy employees are easily dwarfed by the ever increasing expense of a more senior workforce, or at least that seems to be the company view. I believe the mantra is up and out. Out to where I'm not sure but after 5-7 years you become an expense that should be cut. Or at least until there is a fatal accident and experienced crew members become valuable again. But we've watched how Buffalo changed Colgan's hiring...wait, nevermind.

 

[shamrock]

If up and out is the goal then they are playing the game well. Unfortunately in the process they are converting people who once were fairly content and willing to go a bit above and beyond into folks who when the chips are down will now follow the path of least resistance and choose to stand idly by as the wheels fall off...

 

[mxaviator]

Staff us properly and I'll be happy (so will our customers, partners, etc). Our performance would be better too. It's just that simple.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Staff us properly and I'll be happy (so will our customers, partners, etc). Our performance would be better too. It's just that simple.

We will be staffed properly after Labor Day...Just watch...

 

[johnpeace]

I can't wait for this fabled 'pilot shortage' to actually show up.

The only thing that will change ASA's (or any company's) approach to employee attraction/retention will be economic pressure. If, as a pilot group, we're willing to perform at the level they demand in exchange for the total compensation they offer, then they'll continue to demand more.

It will change when they're unable to get the level of performance they need.

I'm a little surprised at how willing they've been to underperform and jeopardize their business relationships...lots of crew cancellations this summer that they HAD to see coming.

<shrug>

Whatever.

 

[mxaviator]

We will be staffed properly after Labor Day...Just watch...

That's what worries me. Those in charge will see an adequately staffed airline as overstaffed.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

That's what worries me. Those in charge will see an adequately staffed airline as overstaffed.

We'll be fine. 40% of the pilot group with be on reserve.

 

[JoeMerchant]

That's what worries me. Those in charge will see an adequately staffed airline as overstaffed.

We have to make money...We aren't in business to lose money. Right now we don't make money. The cash cow that regionals used to be doesn't exist anymore. Reimbursement rates have gone way down. Costs have gone way up...Something has to give. The net profit margin that ASA enjoyed back in 1998 has been shrunk to zero or worse....

 

[JoeMerchant]

We'll be fine. 40% of the pilot group with be on reserve.

If 40% are on reserve, then we will need to furlough.....

 

[FishandFly]

Joe, would you agree though that being adequately staffed encourages a pilot group to operate at 100% efficiency?

Of course the question would be which saves more money, but considering offering a good product comes only with being adequately staffed maybe it would work out.

An interesting example is our mechanic catastrophe. They have been refusing our mechanics even minimal pay increases for ever and look what happened. Now our entire operation is failing partially due to continual mx issues. Why can't they forecast the costs that result from being a bad company to work for?

 

[Flyguy1226]

The only thing Mgmt cares about right now is to complete SOC by the end of the year, unfortunately everything else is being ignored or going to s**t right now.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe, would you agree though that being adequately staffed encourages a pilot group to operate at 100% efficiency?

Of course the question would be which saves more money, but considering offering a good product comes only with being adequately staffed maybe it would work out.

An interesting example is our mechanic catastrophe. They have been refusing our mechanics even minimal pay increases for ever and look what happened. Now our entire operation is failing partially due to continual mx issues. Why can't they forecast the costs that result from being a bad company to work for?

Fish, it's not that simple in this business...I wish it were.

1. The airlines have far more flying in June, July, and half of August than the rest of the year....You can't use 20% of the year for your staffing model.

2. The majors we partner with are constantly adding flying at the last minute. How do we account for that? It may end next month.

3. We have built a "master/apprentice" type industry where the "regionals" are "stepping stone" jobs to the "real" jobs at the "mainlines"... This causes constant movement, and the cost structure is based on this constant movement. In addition, it only takes 2 weeks notice to quit, but 3+ months to replace. For mechanics, it takes far longer to get them up to speed...

4. We already can't make money under the new paradigm...How does increasing our costs make us make money? The only way it will work is to outlive the competition and get pricing power....

5. You say this is a "bad company to work for". Can you name a regional that is better to work for. Which one is better?

 

[Freebrd]

The only thing Mgmt cares about right now is to complete SOC by the end of the year, unfortunately everything else is being ignored or going to s**t right now.

copy dat!

 

[pilotyip]

Fish, it's not that simple in this business...I wish it were.

1. The airlines have far more flying in June, July, and half of August than the rest of the year....You can't use 20% of the year for your staffing model.

2. The majors we partner with are constantly adding flying at the last minute. How do we account for that? It may end next month.

3. We have built a "master/apprentice" type industry where the "regionals" are "stepping stone" jobs to the "real" jobs at the "mainlines"... This causes constant movement, and the cost structure is based on this constant movement. In addition, it only takes 2 weeks notice to quit, but 3+ months to replace. For mechanics, it takes far longer to get them up to speed...

4. We already can't make money under the new paradigm...How does increasing our costs make us make money? The only way it will work is to outlive the competition and get pricing power....

5. You say this is a "bad company to work for". Can you name a regional that is better to work for. Which one is better?

Hey stop that! this is FI, we do not deal in reality here. We only deal in a self centered world of everything being someone else's fault. BTW Isn't the term Happy Pilot an oxymoran?

 

[FishandFly]

Fish, it's not that simple in this business...I wish it were.

1. The airlines have far more flying in June, July, and half of August than the rest of the year....You can't use 20% of the year for your staffing model.

2. The majors we partner with are constantly adding flying at the last minute. How do we account for that? It may end next month.

3. We have built a "master/apprentice" type industry where the "regionals" are "stepping stone" jobs to the "real" jobs at the "mainlines"... This causes constant movement, and the cost structure is based on this constant movement. In addition, it only takes 2 weeks notice to quit, but 3+ months to replace. For mechanics, it takes far longer to get them up to speed...

4. We already can't make money under the new paradigm...How does increasing our costs make us make money? The only way it will work is to outlive the competition and get pricing power....

5. You say this is a "bad company to work for". Can you name a regional that is better to work for. Which one is better?

Joe,
Let me be clear, my issue is not having to stretch ourselves a bit over a 3 month period. We have been severely understaffed for the entire year. Your typical professional will not lose sight of operating at 100 percent simply because they are told they are going to have a poor quality of life, be extended, etc. for that short period of time. I am referring to running thin on purpose. Reserve pilots ARE understaffed 80 percent of the year, not 20 and have been for 4 years.

Of course it is a difficult industry, but don't get too down on yourself or the industry. Although you seem like a very analytical guy, Jerry Atkin's actions are more of a good indicator than skepticism of profit we receive in company emails. Jerry is NOT divesting.

How do we spend more money when we are not making money? That is my question. If ASA is running at a loss and low on cash, you run it like they currently are OTHER than one major point of my original post. We have all seen ASA go to the end of the earth to NOT accommodate pilots in need of numerous personal flexibility or simply trusting the group. My point in the case of low cash is that we should still be treated very well to ensure we operate at 100% for the company.

If we consider all the time past and present when we have adequate cash flow and the pilot group continues to be treated poorly, my point still stands. Treat your employees well and they will treat you well.

If you would like to see a company that operates this way successfully, just look around. Southwest touches on it, but the non-airline industries have dove head first into this concept.

Focus on your employees and your employees will focus on you.

 

[acaTerry]

..

5. You say this is a "bad company to work for". Can you name a regional that is better to work for. Which one is better?

You may not want to keep such an "I surrender" attitude. That is part of why you guys are where you are now. Look back to the CMR contract in the late 1990's. Regionals weren't all that bad when I was there...but then again, the airline industry was a different animal. Regardless, they fought it out, and I remember many a newspaper article on CMR and its contract fight with the pilots. They ended up getting a pretty darn good contract. The service you provide does matter. Passengers write letters. And when they keep getting good letters, or bad ones, that is remembered not only in the contract between you and your management, but also between your management and the associated mother airline. If you think that a fee-per-departure of $15 cheaper is more important than losing 15% of their customer base over crummy service, you need to think again. The better airline WILL get the bid. Big dollars come from full airplanes. Airplanes are filled with passengers who like your airline. Even if it costs a little more. Guess what? SWA has not been THE cheapest fare for quite some time, and look at their load factors. Now look at their pilots pay and benefits package.
Your service, your attitude does matter. When the time comes, fight for that contract. If they give you a good one, and you can't wipe the smile off the faces of your passengers after flying with you, then it only gets better. Saying "oh why bother, it sucks everywhere" is an easy way to stay miserable. No one will cry for you if you guys don't try.

 

[acaTerry]

.

Focus on your employees and your employees will focus on you.

SWA is a fine example. "The airline that will never last" is now kicking everyone's a$$. They went from being the airline that everyone turned their nose up to the one that everybody loves, eh I mean, Luvs

 

[paid4training]

I worked for the asa/expressjet airline as an agent. I have to say the company doesn't care about any of it's employees!!! I felt like I was in an abusive relationship, management and the company do not care about you at all. Starting at $8.75 but getting a pay reduction to 8.50 come sept., you are going to have alot of unhappy don't give a crap agents working your flights!!!!! Misery is company wide at surejet!!!!!